DH wants to move back to New Zealand

[Mightypen]

Trigger warning: we are OK off financially and I know this rationally so please do not read if moaning middle classes annoy you!

We both spent our formative years in NZ and DH was born there so has more of a pull… We moved over to the UK in our 20s.

DH thinks UK is in a dire economic and demographic position and the middle to well off will end up having to pay to bail us out from already taxed income. The rich have already left or have locked down their assets and protected themselves.

DH points out NZ has no stamp duty, virtually no capital gains tax, no inheritance tax. There is a reason millionaires are flocking there (we are not multi millionaires!). The NHS will be even more pressured as we reach old age and I wouldn’t be surprised if they stopped state pensions for anyone who owns a house worth over a certain amount or has, say, whatever the equivalent of £10k is in a savings account.

All dire predictions and catastrophising on my part has come true in recent years eg Brexit, Trump etc.

We (or our children) upon our demise will be handing over hundreds of thousands to the govt of already taxed income. Like many, the last few years have seen our standard of living drop. We are really lucky not to be anywhere near destitute or homeless. But there is no spare cash for any of the extras that made life fun. I can’t afford to pay more into my pension and I really should… there is no real scope to go beyond treading water.

The things that seemed realistic just a couple of years ago are out of reach now eg moving to our dream property.

I can see his point and agree we will be snookered here in old age. The main upside I can see of NZ is it beautiful, has great people and is further out of reach if we have nuclear war. BUT it’s dull and far away.

We have 2 DCs, a tween and early teen (years 6 and 8). They go to great schools which we are paying enormous sums for (sorry) and are getting the sort of opportunities we could only dream of in our youth. If we went back, we could send them to local schools where they at least have playing fields (we live in a city here). I don’t think private schools there offer the same value.

DH thinks we should cut our losses in the UK, sell up and resettle in NZ. He never used to feel like this and was always realistic about NZ’s strengths and weaknesses and the UK’s but he’s now very down on the UK.

The DC eulogise NZ as they have grown up with no close relatives here so think it must be amazing and they would live in sunshine forever more.

I remember it as boring, expensive with poor housing and a tad pretentious (in the circles I mixed in - prob as it was so small). Jobs and wealth were even more dependent on being connected whereas in the UK, if you have the skills, you can carve out a decent and interesting career.

Travel from NZ is expensive unless you want a trip
to Australia or the Pacific Islands. Asia is a short haul trip
and it’s at least 12 hours away…

I love European culture, food, history, architecture and nature. This continent has so much diversity and it’s just a short flight or even drive away. We would NEVER have access to this in NZ. I envisage my retirement as being filled with jaunts to the south of France in September, truffle gathering in Croatia in the autumn, long walks on Sardinian beaches in June, ambling through Seville during orange blossom season, island hopping in Greece in May, Christmas markets in Austria and Germany, summer trips to the Alps, short breaks to Budapest and Berlin…, revisiting the Hermitage in off season (if there is such a thing and if it is ever safe to go to Russia again).

Then there is the small matter of resettling DC. If we don’t go in the next year, it will be too late (and I doubt we can sell up by then). If we wait until DC have finished school, then we will
live on the other side of the world from them. Even if we move
them now, they will probably drift back to the UK for a few years at the very least in their 20s.

I’ve pointed all this out… what more can I say to convince DH this is a bad idea? Or am I wrong? Is there an alternative place I could propose to him? I don’t think anywhere is utopia. But is there anywhere better than here or NZ?

Realistically, will you be able to afford the retirement that you're dreaming of? How big would the tax changes or cost of living changes need to be to make that not possible?

To be honest, I agree that the past few years have been pretty awful, and I don't think the UK is somewhere I want to raise my kids anymore... so I wouldn't be ruling out a country that does have a lot of benefits, and you'll also have existing experiences of/family and friends in.

TW because while you're not multi millionaires you're obviously millionaires with a huge income.

OP doesn't sound like the "comfortable middle classes" at all, she sounds like she's in the top 1% and her husband wants to find a way to legitimately minimise their contributions when they pass.

Anyway, that's the extent of my contribution because I cannot conceive of being in her position. I wouldn't move to NZ if you paid me, my life and relationships here are too important to me.

Jacinda Ardern was most definitely not a positive for NZ. She caused a huge amount of damage to the country.

It seems unlikely that New Zealand will escape the demographic crisis which is set to shape all our futures.

You haven’t said where your DH would like to move to in NZ. There will clearly be a vast difference in terms of jobs, lifestyle, opportunities, weather in somewhere like Auckland as opposed to somewhere like Timaru or Invercargill in the South Island.

If your husband is serious about this he needs to be doing some Relocation style research and look at comparable, jobs, schools, lifestyle, housing etc… and see if you really would be better off. Surely your in laws have on the ground insight to help answer this.

You haven’t said where your DH would like to move to in NZ. There will clearly be a vast difference in terms of jobs, lifestyle, opportunities, weather in somewhere like Auckland as opposed to somewhere like Timaru or Invercargill in the South Island.

If your husband is serious about this he needs to be doing some Relocation style research and look at comparable, jobs, schools, lifestyle, housing etc… and see if you really would be better off. Surely your in laws have on the ground insight to help answer this.

I did wonder with the pp and I can see that may be the case

Although I'm not sure you were on mn during covid the love from here was strong.

Per traveling around Europe in retirement, gaining travel insurance is going to be the kicker. How would you feel about your life in the uk if you don't get those European injections?

On the flipside, yes NZ will be very boring (isn't that known as God's Waiting Room??)

Governments change, and you are many years off retiring and, hopefully, dying and worrying about IHT. If you want a great quality of life then move based on that to somewhere that actually gives you that - the south of France, a remote village in Italy, or an apartment in a warm, vibrant continental city. I totally get being fed up with the situation you're in, but I don't think you're running to something better.

I was indeed on here. There was very little love from my family and a huge sense of relief when she finally resigned.

The question I would be asking is how you will feel if your children decide to settle in the UK. They have an idea of what it will be like, but all my NZ friends with young adult kids found they settled elsewhere due to job market etc.

Thank you for saying this, I’m so sick of the overblown narrative about the poor disadvantaged privately educated struggling to access university.

an apartment in a warm, vibrant continental city

The dream!

So you have come over to the UK, taken jobs that have paid well enough to put 2 children through private school, worked hard and had a great quality of life, and now, in case you have to pay a bit more back in to the country that has adopted you, welcomed you, given you careers and served you very well indeed, your husband wants to bugger off? Charming.

Restaurants on average are better there!
I think that may depend on where you choose to eat there. I was only in NZ for 3 years but certainly the level of high end restaurants in the UK, particularly London, are far superior.

So because your husband doesn't want to pay more tax in the UK he wants to live in a country he hasn't paid tax in for decades? He feels hard done by as the squeezed middle does he with two kids in private school?

This.

A friends sister moved to NZ. All well until children left home as they were bored shitless by the lack of opportunities.

They are still in NZ with one child in London and another in Sydney. Visits are expensive and thus infrequent.

They would love to be near to their children but how do they choose? Both are settled so unlikely to congregate back in one country.

So in order to not show favouritism they stay where they are, apart from both.

Many families face such a scenario and I think the risk is higher for those brought up elsewhere.

NZ might sound great to them in principle now but when reality dawns and they find simple things like seeing a favourite band on tour means a trip to Australia (cos the big acts don't go to NZ) or being able to easily go on holiday to experience different cultures is a very different prospect than in Europe the shine may wane.

Uni years are not that far off. Have you thought about the cost of funding them if they don't want to study in NZ?

You sound like you don't want to go, and NZ is FAR. If you hate it, it will be hard to come back to Europe/UK.

Think about what you want and decide how far you're willing to go. (I'm originally from overseas and I don't plan to move away from Europe at any point).

In my experience of living in 3 countries now, anywhere is hard

Staying in the UK is hard, thinking I would just be happier if I was in x country. Moving to a new country is hard and some people say they never settled down properly and was it worth it?

I’m British, I’ve lived in NZ for 8 years and I’ve recently moved to Australia.

The things I miss about NZ are
Private heath - better and cheaper than Australia
Nice scenery
My spiritual circle of friends

I think it also depends on where you want to live and how your skills fit into what NZ needs. Wellington is suffering from government cuts and they say it’s pretty gloomy there at the moment. Auckland is more commercial and based on who you know and who you went to school with with or worked with 20yrs ago.

With regards to your housing budget, you could get a nice 4 bed house in Point Chevalier or Grey Lynn Auckland and find a sense of community there for $2.5/3m

I won’t say anymore because last time I made disparaging comments about NZ I was quoted in the NZ Herald three times!

Your husband sounds very materialistic and quite unpleasant really .

was he bothered when the poor were getting poorer under the Tories or is it only paying his way now he objects to?

I would say yeah go for it except for this…

your problem is in the detail…He essentially wants to retire at 50? With young children…. 🥴🥴🥴
that would be a no from me

Different people have different problems. OP was clearly looking for opinions from people who also have “first world problems” and not snide remarks from the jealous and bitter element.

Thanks. I do not live in London but I do work there. Aukland is much smaller than London has less culture and did.not feel safe to me each to their own but on balance I think I would pass.

Agree with coatescat and thatsnotmyteen. Sure, nobody likes paying more tax but you seem attracted by the aspects of NZ's tax system that skew it in favour of property speculators and against wage earners (no inheritance or CGT). And could easily find out that you can get a lovely family home in suburban Auckland for around £1m leaving you about £3m to invest. At 3% net drawdown that's at least £90k per year to live on, mortgage free and without working. Your TW should have been for privileged wailing and your focus should be on culture, career and lifestyle, not affordability. I arrived from NZ in the UK a couple of decades ago and have wrestled with these issues ever since.

You might not be able to do all those trips to Europe given the travel restrictions for Brits.

Personally I would sell up and go, the country is doomed, even more so for your children as statistically the UK will no longer be a Cristan country at some point in their life time.