DH wants to move back to New Zealand

[Mightypen]

Trigger warning: we are OK off financially and I know this rationally so please do not read if moaning middle classes annoy you!

We both spent our formative years in NZ and DH was born there so has more of a pull… We moved over to the UK in our 20s.

DH thinks UK is in a dire economic and demographic position and the middle to well off will end up having to pay to bail us out from already taxed income. The rich have already left or have locked down their assets and protected themselves.

DH points out NZ has no stamp duty, virtually no capital gains tax, no inheritance tax. There is a reason millionaires are flocking there (we are not multi millionaires!). The NHS will be even more pressured as we reach old age and I wouldn’t be surprised if they stopped state pensions for anyone who owns a house worth over a certain amount or has, say, whatever the equivalent of £10k is in a savings account.

All dire predictions and catastrophising on my part has come true in recent years eg Brexit, Trump etc.

We (or our children) upon our demise will be handing over hundreds of thousands to the govt of already taxed income. Like many, the last few years have seen our standard of living drop. We are really lucky not to be anywhere near destitute or homeless. But there is no spare cash for any of the extras that made life fun. I can’t afford to pay more into my pension and I really should… there is no real scope to go beyond treading water.

The things that seemed realistic just a couple of years ago are out of reach now eg moving to our dream property.

I can see his point and agree we will be snookered here in old age. The main upside I can see of NZ is it beautiful, has great people and is further out of reach if we have nuclear war. BUT it’s dull and far away.

We have 2 DCs, a tween and early teen (years 6 and 8). They go to great schools which we are paying enormous sums for (sorry) and are getting the sort of opportunities we could only dream of in our youth. If we went back, we could send them to local schools where they at least have playing fields (we live in a city here). I don’t think private schools there offer the same value.

DH thinks we should cut our losses in the UK, sell up and resettle in NZ. He never used to feel like this and was always realistic about NZ’s strengths and weaknesses and the UK’s but he’s now very down on the UK.

The DC eulogise NZ as they have grown up with no close relatives here so think it must be amazing and they would live in sunshine forever more.

I remember it as boring, expensive with poor housing and a tad pretentious (in the circles I mixed in - prob as it was so small). Jobs and wealth were even more dependent on being connected whereas in the UK, if you have the skills, you can carve out a decent and interesting career.

Travel from NZ is expensive unless you want a trip
to Australia or the Pacific Islands. Asia is a short haul trip
and it’s at least 12 hours away…

I love European culture, food, history, architecture and nature. This continent has so much diversity and it’s just a short flight or even drive away. We would NEVER have access to this in NZ. I envisage my retirement as being filled with jaunts to the south of France in September, truffle gathering in Croatia in the autumn, long walks on Sardinian beaches in June, ambling through Seville during orange blossom season, island hopping in Greece in May, Christmas markets in Austria and Germany, summer trips to the Alps, short breaks to Budapest and Berlin…, revisiting the Hermitage in off season (if there is such a thing and if it is ever safe to go to Russia again).

Then there is the small matter of resettling DC. If we don’t go in the next year, it will be too late (and I doubt we can sell up by then). If we wait until DC have finished school, then we will
live on the other side of the world from them. Even if we move
them now, they will probably drift back to the UK for a few years at the very least in their 20s.

I’ve pointed all this out… what more can I say to convince DH this is a bad idea? Or am I wrong? Is there an alternative place I could propose to him? I don’t think anywhere is utopia. But is there anywhere better than here or NZ?

Boasting.

I think the OP should go.

What's your support network like in the UK? If you've got relatives in NZ that must be more of a pull especially with kids and your DH getting older. Can your DH not get work there/ transferrable skills? Can you work there?

This. And complaining that city schools don't have playing fields. Every school local to ne does.

I think reading back some of the views, it extraordinary to think that a ‘net worth’ of say £4m would not buy early retirement and a house in the biggest city in NZ! He will hit mid 50s next year, I’m a bit younger. I would probably work and he would have to do something! Look after his crypto! Day trade… Or we buy a modest rental in a different town and a more modest family house.

I do normally work but my career is not what it was here though has the potential to be if I did not get bored so easily.

DH also thinks DC won’t get into good unis here as they will be judged to higher standards going to private school.
I think things will change and universities willl have to be more balanced: recognising some of the privileges of private schools but not going quite as far as currently.

We have in laws there @Stressybetty . DC older soo we have no need for childcare any more really.

Why Auckland? (Sorry if I missed why.) If you don't need akl for work then it would seem a bad choice.

I know what you mean about a very small sector of (rich) pretentious people, but if you're not using private schools, you'd have to go out of your way to mix in those circles.

Agree on a lot of the rest though. Always thought I'd end up there, but increasingly unlikely.

If your DH is suggesting a major unplanned change then he has to convince you, not the other way around.

I live about five miles from the square mile in London @RedHelenB . We are only paying for the facilities we would get in a state school in NZ! Though I think the education in both state and private is better here.

I remember her telling me a small punnet of mushrooms from a regular store set her back the equivalent of £6.

Hmmm, I feel like this would have to be based on seasonal shortages as I live in NZ and buy mushrooms all the time, and a small punnet is currently about £1.50 to £3 depending on whether they’re button mushrooms or portobello.

That said, NZ produce is typically more expensive overall but not quite to the extreme of your example!!

Do you have a person shaped space in your suitcase?

FWIW I agree with your DH about the dire state of the UK currently and almost certainly in future. I just can't see it getting any better any time soon and Starmer and his leftie pals are explicit in their view that the MC are cash cows for their various spending plans - something we have no intention of funding.

Like you and your DH we're also dual citizens with the option to move to our other country. We've batted the idea back and forth lately, but our DC are secondary age and our other country (though nowhere near as remote, small and parochial as NZ), also has its own issues, as most other places do. We also love Europe - me in particular - and my retirement dreams are very similar to yours (however realistic they may be!)

What's the answer? I don't know, but I doubt it's hiding away in NZ, which sounds like no kind of utopia to me. I'd hate to be stuck somewhere so remote with everywhere else a long, expensive flight away. If you grew up there I guess it's home and you feel differently, but as a European the thought of moving somewhere like makes gives me a shudder! Could you move somewhere in Europe instead, even short term? Your DH's idea to basically retire and live off savings strikes me as utter madness in his 50s.

ahh, another one: We (or our children) upon our demise will be handing over hundreds of thousands to the govt of already taxed income. It’ll mainly be capital gains on property and shares - you hardly toiled for it. But you know - if saving your presumably well-educated kids who will therefore presumably have good careers a tax bill in their 60s is more important, then go go go.

I lived in Australia for years but came back to the UK for many of the reasons you listed.

I'm also not sure how you'd be financially better off by moving to NZ if your husband will have to retire and you'll be moving your kids to public schools. You could move them to public schools here and your husband could keep his current job, which seems like it would leave you better off financially than moving?

I emigrated over 20 years ago and love NZ. It has it downsides, but so does every other country.

It is a huge move and if you are both not fully on board then don't do it.

I still miss the UK immensely, but NZ is my home and we have been made really welcome here, have met some fantastic friends and life is good.

It sounds to me as if your DH has got the early fifties blues. A lot of men at that age seem to feel ‘ is that it then’, they see the decline in their physical powers , perhaps think they won’t see much progression in their careers. So they think about a major external life change, rather than recognising that the change has to come within themselves.

Your DH thinks that his life situation will be ‘solved’ by giving up work and moving to the other side of the world. I think he is probably mistaken.

Jesus fucking Christ
Why is there a need to apologise for not being skint?
Of course nobody should post on a thread about struggling to pay for electricity about their fancy holiday but its OK TO HAVE MONEY!!!!!
I blame the whole Private School thing, due to Labour bringing in The VAT (which I don't have a huge issue with) its Ok to hate people not on the breadline. I appreciate that some Private School Parents don't help themselves with their "just scraping by" bollocks and entitlement but come on OP, no need to be sorry for having a bit of cash and choosing to send your DC Private

But she's not boasting - she's just saying 'We have the money to live a comfortable life', but she knows that almost anyone who dares to admit that on MN gets roasted for 'boasting'!

I'm living the retirement life you dream of, @Mightypen, and I can enthusiastically recommend it. When we aren't traveling I nurture my very busy social and cultural life. Wild horses wouldn't drag me away to the other side if the world, and in your shoes I wouldn't even consider it.

Even in Australia a friend of my DM’s (retired) who is Australian (lived in London during 60s) said a lot of healthier food like salad and veggies was more expensive there than in UK. She’s a well off person with a good pension.

I wouldn't go in a hundred years. Your kids likely will not stay- at best they'll go to Australia or Asia. So you risk putting everything into retiring in a country and being continents apart from your children.

Yes- could happen anywhere. But the risk is higher in NZ- there's no future there for young people. And the travel times to visit them if they do go, will be brutal.

He sounds like he in midlife crisis territory and that’s a really bad time to do anything huge. In your position I’d agree with him and say it’s an excellent retirement plan for ten years time.

I appreciate the draw of a country that you both lived in previously, and NZ certainly looks spectacular. Familiarity, family and your previous lives there are all pros.
So what's on your con list? Only you and your family can decide what the priorities are for you.

I can tell you what I'd do though. I'd stay in Europe. Admittedly things here are not particularly good at the moment, and there are multiple reasons to be concerned, but there are also multiple advantages to being here. Draw up a balance sheet for the entire family and really investigate the things you have, as a mere visitor, glossed over in the past. You need to do your own research, and read the newspapers, look at what's happening politically etc. Otherwise you could be leaping from the frying pan into the fire.

NZ as a place to visit would be great. As a place to live.....nah. But I don't have family there. You do. That's the difference. My family are in Australia and I'd not move there either.

Which city did you reference for the friendship group you had here? Auckland - Ponsonby? Christchurch?
I think you will find the UK is less favourable to us as it is to you having had a relative just return. Also talking to a friend from the UK.

We do have homeless like I would of never imagined, have you looked at our housing costs?
Living under the current government well that's concerning enough.
Housing is very expensive, food, heating. (Yet to be marketed as an exotic expensive country)
We are isolated which makes travel so expensive.
Schools extra circular activities in public is very good.
Sun here? Must be the North island?
I wouldn't be moving here.
If you do be prepared to hold a return ticket because everyone wants to flee.
Australia at least it has a tropical climate.

6mths she won't be feeling so wealthy living here 🤣

Indeed. She's doing the opposite of boasting.

"There is a reason millionaires are flocking there (we are not multi millionaires!)"

I think she should go. Most sane people who can, should.