DH wants to move back to New Zealand

[Mightypen]

Trigger warning: we are OK off financially and I know this rationally so please do not read if moaning middle classes annoy you!

We both spent our formative years in NZ and DH was born there so has more of a pull… We moved over to the UK in our 20s.

DH thinks UK is in a dire economic and demographic position and the middle to well off will end up having to pay to bail us out from already taxed income. The rich have already left or have locked down their assets and protected themselves.

DH points out NZ has no stamp duty, virtually no capital gains tax, no inheritance tax. There is a reason millionaires are flocking there (we are not multi millionaires!). The NHS will be even more pressured as we reach old age and I wouldn’t be surprised if they stopped state pensions for anyone who owns a house worth over a certain amount or has, say, whatever the equivalent of £10k is in a savings account.

All dire predictions and catastrophising on my part has come true in recent years eg Brexit, Trump etc.

We (or our children) upon our demise will be handing over hundreds of thousands to the govt of already taxed income. Like many, the last few years have seen our standard of living drop. We are really lucky not to be anywhere near destitute or homeless. But there is no spare cash for any of the extras that made life fun. I can’t afford to pay more into my pension and I really should… there is no real scope to go beyond treading water.

The things that seemed realistic just a couple of years ago are out of reach now eg moving to our dream property.

I can see his point and agree we will be snookered here in old age. The main upside I can see of NZ is it beautiful, has great people and is further out of reach if we have nuclear war. BUT it’s dull and far away.

We have 2 DCs, a tween and early teen (years 6 and 8). They go to great schools which we are paying enormous sums for (sorry) and are getting the sort of opportunities we could only dream of in our youth. If we went back, we could send them to local schools where they at least have playing fields (we live in a city here). I don’t think private schools there offer the same value.

DH thinks we should cut our losses in the UK, sell up and resettle in NZ. He never used to feel like this and was always realistic about NZ’s strengths and weaknesses and the UK’s but he’s now very down on the UK.

The DC eulogise NZ as they have grown up with no close relatives here so think it must be amazing and they would live in sunshine forever more.

I remember it as boring, expensive with poor housing and a tad pretentious (in the circles I mixed in - prob as it was so small). Jobs and wealth were even more dependent on being connected whereas in the UK, if you have the skills, you can carve out a decent and interesting career.

Travel from NZ is expensive unless you want a trip
to Australia or the Pacific Islands. Asia is a short haul trip
and it’s at least 12 hours away…

I love European culture, food, history, architecture and nature. This continent has so much diversity and it’s just a short flight or even drive away. We would NEVER have access to this in NZ. I envisage my retirement as being filled with jaunts to the south of France in September, truffle gathering in Croatia in the autumn, long walks on Sardinian beaches in June, ambling through Seville during orange blossom season, island hopping in Greece in May, Christmas markets in Austria and Germany, summer trips to the Alps, short breaks to Budapest and Berlin…, revisiting the Hermitage in off season (if there is such a thing and if it is ever safe to go to Russia again).

Then there is the small matter of resettling DC. If we don’t go in the next year, it will be too late (and I doubt we can sell up by then). If we wait until DC have finished school, then we will
live on the other side of the world from them. Even if we move
them now, they will probably drift back to the UK for a few years at the very least in their 20s.

I’ve pointed all this out… what more can I say to convince DH this is a bad idea? Or am I wrong? Is there an alternative place I could propose to him? I don’t think anywhere is utopia. But is there anywhere better than here or NZ?

Why not take the kids out of private school and use the money to pay for better things for now or in future here?

Having money you have to apologise nowadays

I know you said you'd visited but what about agreeing a holiday with the DC and DH and doing some more research when you're there. Visiting estate agents etc. Just thinking along the Wanted Down Under telly program lines!

Honestly if you can't afford the fun things and are worried about retirement I would drop the private school fees and save them into a pension or investment instead. You can always use them to support your DC later. IMO school fees are not likely to be worth it in total if you are giving up that much for them. Many states schools are very good in the greater London area!

Like some pp's me and DH were discussing the other night about the state of the UK etc and how moving to a different country in future might be a good idea. (Having needed to basically rescue MIL with dementia from France a few years ago where she'd retired to) We would be worried about what happens if one of us gets really ill tho.

I would go without thinking twice. The UK is a dirty shit hole these days and I agree with your DH on the things mentioned. Your have to put your kids' lives first and they will have better access to healthcare and better opportunities for hobbies etc. Maybe you need to travel around the islands and find an area that suits you more instead of writing off the entire country based on a distant memory of one area.

Young people these days are all moving out of the UK, few have ambition to stay.

OP, I’m from NZ. I wouldn’t say the grass is greener here, absolutely not. There’s a huge cost of living crisis here at the moment and all the issues you mention I agree with too (expensive housing, expensive groceries etc.) I would say lots of people are unhappy here right now, just like in the UK.

Are millionaires really flocking here? I’m surprised by that statement.

Agree re private schools though, I went to one and not sure it was worth the value compared to state. I’d think long and hard about this- are you in London? When I moved back I missed so much about the UK- close proximity to Europe, things happening every day, variety in supermarkets/shops etc.

Are you both Kiwis? I think lots will depend on what sector your work is in etc. As you say it can be somewhat insular and it can be hard to find your people after being away.

Wishing you all the best! It’s a difficult decision for sure.

I switched off at NZ is dull. It’s definitely not that.

Another person here saying its a 50 something man looking to retire early. There are many things you could do less drastic to make your life financially better- move to a cheaper area, put kids in state schools - save that money in your pension so you can both retire a little earlier and get the retirement you want. I suspect your husband will dismiss them because he will still have to work. The thing about private school kids and university is just bollocks.

I have a DH in his 50s who thinks his wish to retire early top trumps everyone elses happiness. I know a few more like him. Mostly they like their work as well. I wouldn't let him move us to the other side of the world because of it- you're right to be cautious.

You are clearly very well off in either country. Sounds like your husband is obsessed with hoarding wealth by not paying tax. Just live in the country you would rather live in, either way you’ll have plenty of money. As a millionaire (3-4 mill NZ is 1.5-2 mill GBP) you can have an incredible property in the UK if you look beyond the SW.

Just to say that I wouldn't factor into your plans too much whether your kids will likely prefer to stay in NZ/stay in UK out of fear you end up on different sides of the world: this stuff can never be planned for and both my brother and my cousin, neither of whom had any connection to Australia in childhood, are permanently living out there now with their children (one moved for love and one for work!). Similarly I have two UK friends living out in New Zealand, one with a Kiwi partner but one who moved for lifestyle with British husband. Your children are always going to go their own way so you should think more about what's right for you and your husband!

I live about five miles from the square mile in London

This is your issue.

May I suggest an alternative before you fly your family halfway around the globe to a fairly remote (albeit fantastic) group of islands? Move 15 miles in any direction (north, south, east, west) and try out Kent, Essex, Bucks, Berks or Surrey. You will get a lot more space for your money, a different pace of life, and if you pick carefully, access to beautiful countryside and fantastic state schools with good facilities.

I spent a couple of years in NZ in my early 20s and I liked it but like you, I recognise the downsides. It's great for families with young kids - tbh with the ages yours are, I think you've missed the boat on it. As your kids grow older, they're going to want more freedom and access to facilities, not less, and it's difficult to see how they'll necessarily get that in New Zealand unless you live in a city or large town (expensive). It's very car-reliant. And their opportunities at university-level will obviously be a lot more limited unless they leave NZ.

Food is expensive. I go back regularly and I've noticed it creeping up.

OP you know people do travel to Europe and America regularly. I'm not sure why you think you wouldn't. Sure it's not a long weekend thing but many people I know do annual or twice a year trips

Apologies I haven't rtft and repeating ppl but some of your dh's worries are ludicrous. If there's a nuclear war you might not die of radiation poisoning but the global economy will be destroyed and life will not exactly be a jolly, sushi-eating bubble. Your dc not getting into good unis because they go to private schools is bonkers - no private school pupil I know has failed to end up at a good uni unless they were unacademic to begin with and not uni material. I've never been to NZ but seem to know more than you that its economy is not in a great state rn and it's very expensive to live there, plus - as you say - weather can be awful. You say you're easily bored, so NZ is definitely not the place for you. Knock it on the head.

I don't live in the UK anymore (although Im from the UK) and from a distance, over the years, I have seen how it's absolutely gone down the swan. I would take your DH's advice and get out asap. Your kids are most likely to thank you for it in years to come (and yes i have travelled around NZ so understand a few of your concerns).

@CrispieCake that's excellent advice. There’s more choice than central London or NZ. My relatives live in NZ and the younger ones are finding life is very expensive. They’re lucky enough to find a reasonable rental but have little hope of buying. The parents are very self sufficient, growing their own produce and selling/exchanging with their neighbours. All their kids are in the creative industry, some quite well paid but still find it hard.

Also I wanted to add, NZ’s equivalent of the NHS is in absolute dire straits at the moment. It’s in a similar situation to the UK. Have a google and you will see what I mean

Another thing to consider if the medical care on offer! I have spent time training in an oncology specialist hospital and the consultants were telling me about the drugs we use over here that are very successful are not available in New Zealand (patient was a Kiwi and discussing this). We know the NHS is in a state right now but in terms of medications available especially for oncology it is pretty much miles ahead of NZ.

Given the age of your kids, you have another 15 days of supporting them - you'd be mad to retire on the other side of the world!

My reaction to your posts is that this is two separate problems. First, should you move to NZ. Second, you don't like the look of the UK's future so how/where can you best protect yourselves and have a good life. The answer to the second question might be quite different to moving back to NZ.

Oh yes completely agree with this. A lot of people carry out health insurance with cancer drug provisions as they are so poorly funded at the moment. You would think these drugs would be funded in a similar fashion to the NHS, but they’re not.

So many sad stories on gofundme pages to fundraise for necessary cancer medications (we are talking £100,000+++)

A lot of what you say is correct but eating out is not overly expensive at all. The restaurants and cafes are so busy as it's very normal to beat out. And cheap things like domino's are way cheaper there.

Things like Starbucks are around half the price of the uk

Teachers and nurses get paid way better but higher paid professional jobs slightly less than their equivalent in the uk.

It's mixed bag.

@Grammarnut what??
How on earth did you come to that conclusion?
My interpretation was that OP’s DH was worried that it would be the comfortable middle classes who bear the brunt of trying to get the UK back on its feet. She put a trigger warning because she didn’t want people who can’t afford food being offended by her family thinking of taking their middle class money abroad to avoid being taxed etc. Perfectly reasonable precaution, as MN often goes that way.

Your kids might end up in Australia - a lot of NZ kids seem to head there for work opportunities once they are finished with university. Or they may be homesick for the UK and head back. Or they may move to Australia or NZ and leave you in the UK. You can't really predict what will happen there so can't factor for it.

Agree with other posters that this idea to up sticks and move to NZ is probably not the answer, given your reluctance. It's a huge shock to kids to move and at their ages the schooling is about to get more intense - they need stability.

Is there a chance to go first, even for a sabbatical/school exchange, and see if you like it.

Yes historic villas that haven't been updated are damp and cold but that's not the majority of housing.

All modern housing has the same sort of regulations as here. Must be double glazed. Cavity insulated etc. they have heat pump heating/air con as standard.

Any older places that are to be rented need to be brought up to this standard also so the housing stock is again, a mixed bag but you don't have to be living in a cold historic villa