DH wants to move back to New Zealand

[Mightypen]

Trigger warning: we are OK off financially and I know this rationally so please do not read if moaning middle classes annoy you!

We both spent our formative years in NZ and DH was born there so has more of a pull… We moved over to the UK in our 20s.

DH thinks UK is in a dire economic and demographic position and the middle to well off will end up having to pay to bail us out from already taxed income. The rich have already left or have locked down their assets and protected themselves.

DH points out NZ has no stamp duty, virtually no capital gains tax, no inheritance tax. There is a reason millionaires are flocking there (we are not multi millionaires!). The NHS will be even more pressured as we reach old age and I wouldn’t be surprised if they stopped state pensions for anyone who owns a house worth over a certain amount or has, say, whatever the equivalent of £10k is in a savings account.

All dire predictions and catastrophising on my part has come true in recent years eg Brexit, Trump etc.

We (or our children) upon our demise will be handing over hundreds of thousands to the govt of already taxed income. Like many, the last few years have seen our standard of living drop. We are really lucky not to be anywhere near destitute or homeless. But there is no spare cash for any of the extras that made life fun. I can’t afford to pay more into my pension and I really should… there is no real scope to go beyond treading water.

The things that seemed realistic just a couple of years ago are out of reach now eg moving to our dream property.

I can see his point and agree we will be snookered here in old age. The main upside I can see of NZ is it beautiful, has great people and is further out of reach if we have nuclear war. BUT it’s dull and far away.

We have 2 DCs, a tween and early teen (years 6 and 8). They go to great schools which we are paying enormous sums for (sorry) and are getting the sort of opportunities we could only dream of in our youth. If we went back, we could send them to local schools where they at least have playing fields (we live in a city here). I don’t think private schools there offer the same value.

DH thinks we should cut our losses in the UK, sell up and resettle in NZ. He never used to feel like this and was always realistic about NZ’s strengths and weaknesses and the UK’s but he’s now very down on the UK.

The DC eulogise NZ as they have grown up with no close relatives here so think it must be amazing and they would live in sunshine forever more.

I remember it as boring, expensive with poor housing and a tad pretentious (in the circles I mixed in - prob as it was so small). Jobs and wealth were even more dependent on being connected whereas in the UK, if you have the skills, you can carve out a decent and interesting career.

Travel from NZ is expensive unless you want a trip
to Australia or the Pacific Islands. Asia is a short haul trip
and it’s at least 12 hours away…

I love European culture, food, history, architecture and nature. This continent has so much diversity and it’s just a short flight or even drive away. We would NEVER have access to this in NZ. I envisage my retirement as being filled with jaunts to the south of France in September, truffle gathering in Croatia in the autumn, long walks on Sardinian beaches in June, ambling through Seville during orange blossom season, island hopping in Greece in May, Christmas markets in Austria and Germany, summer trips to the Alps, short breaks to Budapest and Berlin…, revisiting the Hermitage in off season (if there is such a thing and if it is ever safe to go to Russia again).

Then there is the small matter of resettling DC. If we don’t go in the next year, it will be too late (and I doubt we can sell up by then). If we wait until DC have finished school, then we will
live on the other side of the world from them. Even if we move
them now, they will probably drift back to the UK for a few years at the very least in their 20s.

I’ve pointed all this out… what more can I say to convince DH this is a bad idea? Or am I wrong? Is there an alternative place I could propose to him? I don’t think anywhere is utopia. But is there anywhere better than here or NZ?

DH also thinks DC won’t get into good unis here as they will be judged to higher standards going to private school.

He's being ridiculous. Any slight advantage to state school pupils will only affect a tiny number, at maybe 3 or 4 unis. This whole thing is overblown. If your kids are getting the kind of education you're paying for, and they're bright, of course they'll get into Russell Group unis.

I suspect any parents whose privately educated children don't get into Oxbridge are now using state school support as an excuse, and making it seem like a bigger issue than it is.

My brother is there. The job market is awful, we've literally just had a discussion about it. It's incredibly expensive. Mortgage rates have shafted people more than here. It's a fucking long way away. I don't really see the positives.

I was in NZ last week, from Australia, blueberries were $137 a kilo 😦 I would move there if I could, but waiting to see how reciprocal the 2 countries become in the next 5 years, until then just holidays.

With this net worth you are right you'll be fine with housing etc

The things I would think about are your dc including schooling and where they might end up.

Can you see them staying in NZ and if they don't will you be ok with being far apart?

I'm from a family that has made moves across the generations and this is the thing that I would think about.

Fuel and food costs huge, rentals hard the find, I think there’s plenty of work, especially for those under 35 on tourist visas. We went for skiing so Queenstown area, have not been to Auckland so can’t advise there.

My ds age 22 went travelling for a few months in NZ, he saw some of the most beautiful places there; but he didn't think it would be for him to settle out there and he came home before the end of the year's work visa; without a car it was difficult to travel to possible work places and find accommodation.

The people were lovely to him in the hostels especially at Christmas when he lost his wallet and was left without any means of paying for accommodation.

I understand the cost of living is not great there and it is hard for young people starting out (as it is here).

I think it's true middle and low income earners in the UK will end up having to bail us out, but this is home and I care about our communities that have nothing. We have just retired but do not spend lavisly. The UK cannot afford to support it's ageing population as it has been doing.

I completely agree. Wherever you go you take yourself with you.

Moving to NZ just as the nation is having trouble because of all the young graduates leaving..............
Net migration is negative. More people leave than arrive.
Probably an indicator of the overall situation

Yes, move there. You seem deeply unhappy with the UK. Time to give NZ a try.

You should go, it will be a better life.

Maybe you can look at other options? If NZ is having trouble keeping graduates then you might find yourself in that position with your dc soonish

I'm dual national and chose to live in the UK because as much as I love NZ it has just as many problems as the UK but (for me) has the major disadvantages of being miles from anywhere, poor standard of healthcare even with private cover if you are seriously ill (friend currently having to go to Oz for chemo) and limited universities for the kids. Plus I hate earthquakes and the poorly insulated housing. My kids can move there or Australia if they want to but I'm sticking in the UK for now. Have you considered how much better your standard of living could be if you moved out of London?

How much do you want to be there? If you move there with children you won’t be able to move back without DH’s permission. So think about what you want while you still hold the power of veto.

Are there other compromises? Live further from central London but still in U.K.? Another European country?

Racism. OP's DH is worried by the 'demographic' in the UK. He means immigration from outside Europe - at least that's the implication.

I grew up in NZ and I think your summary here still stands - though I would say its VERY pretentious, very expensive.
"I remember it as boring, expensive with poor housing and a tad pretentious"

And stopping off to pay a woman for sex on the way home from work now is sadly all too common and acceptable in NZ.

Despite its high rate of women in parliament NZ is an insanely macho and misogynistic society (which 98% of NZ'ers will be outraged by and deny, nevertheless it is true IMO.).

Would you have the option of a European country? There are some which don't impose CGT, IHT etc, have high standards of living, good international schools etc.

Could it be worth an exploration?

I can understand what your husband is saying and it may well be you would be financially wealthier in NZ. However, there is more to life. If you want to travel throughout Europe and wider, of course it's possible from NZ but more expensive. Your children could decide they prefer being based in UK and return. He doesn't know they will not get into a university and on a course of their choosing. I would say that you're not closed to the idea but not ready to make that decision yet. I would wait at least till the youngest has completed A levels. Your children can make the decision whether they want to remain in UK or move with you to NZ and to university there. I use to live and work in NZ and loved it. My dp is from NZ. We're now in our early 60's and I always thought we'd be in NZ by now. However, for the reasons you listed, travelling throughout Europe and Scandinavia, the culture of music gigs and theatre, we've remained in the UK. We both agree we're not ready to go the green pastures yet.

I wouldn’t be surprised if they stopped state pensions for anyone who owns a house worth over a certain amount or has, say, whatever the equivalent of £10k is in a savings account

This makes no sense whatsoever. No government would do this. Your dire predictions and catastrophising might have come true in the past, but I bet my house this one won't 😅

This continent has so much diversity and it’s just a short flight or even drive away. We would NEVER have access to this in NZ. I envisage my retirement as being filled with jaunts to the south of France in September, truffle gathering in Croatia in the autumn, long walks on Sardinian beaches in June, ambling through Seville during orange blossom season, island hopping in Greece in May, Christmas markets in Austria and Germany, summer trips to the Alps, short breaks to Budapest and Berlin…, revisiting the Hermitage in off season (if there is such a thing and if it is ever safe to go to Russia again)

@Mightypen But you said if you stayed in the UK you would be "snookered" in old age, so you presumably wouldn't be able to afford to do any of the above when you retire if you stay in the UK? So you might as well go to NZ

I'm from NZ, although I've lived in the UK for the last 30 years. The rest of my family is still there. A couple of years ago my brother and SIL sold their bog-standard three-bed, one-bath weatherboard house in Auckland as it was old and needed quite a bit of upkeep. It went for NZD 1 million at auction. My 24-year-old nephew and his girlfriend (both with good jobs in in-demand trades) could only afford to rent with friends. They're now living back with my brother and SIL to save some money so they can try and buy something. I would think very carefully about how far NZD 4 million would stretch in Auckland, particularly if you want to live in the centre. A bit further out you will get more, but there will be a commute if you have a job in the city centre, or even Takapuna. Auckland's commuter belt now extends to areas that were holiday spots when I was a kid and the traffic is terrible. A friend travels to the UK quite frequently for work and always comments how cheap the food is here (although I think food prices are unrealistically low in the UK).

I'm pretty sure some welcome you if you have enough £

Have you considered just moving away from London? Easier, perhaps, to change jobs here than find work in NZ. Pick an area with good state schools or simply cheaper public schools. Yes you'd still have inheritance issues but could move somewhere in Europe for retirement.

This. And are they more likely to get into Oxbridge from private school here, or state school in NZ? Is the University of Auckland internationally more comparable with Cambridge, or more like Leeds/UCL/Glasgow? If Leeds, then what is the point of moving around the world to go to the same quality of university they would have gone to in the UK anyway?

FWIW I live 4 miles from the square mile, and all the local secondary schools have playing fields of their own, or daily access to shared ones. The ones local to us also uses the local tennis club, pool and velodrome for sports lessons and clubs every week. DS’s primary has an indoor hall they use for gymnastics, dance etc, an Astro for football, hockey and basketball/netball, and they walk across the road to the park opposite to use the playing fields there for athletics and rounders. Ok it doesn’t have its own 400 seat theatre like the local private school does, but you really aren’t going to get that in a state school in NZ either.

And that is exactly the kind of nonsense I am talking about

This thread is nuts. Someone with a net worth of £4m isn’t on a low or middle income. They certainly wouldn’t be snookered if they stayed in the UK and could have a very nice lifestyle. OP, you have a great position and if you like it in the UK, then stay here-your dh sounds as if he’s catasrophising. And he’s being ridiculous-private education isn’t going to disadvantage his kids. Although from what you say you want to do in retirement-Schengen visas only allow you to spend 90 days/180!