DH wants to move back to New Zealand

[Mightypen]

Trigger warning: we are OK off financially and I know this rationally so please do not read if moaning middle classes annoy you!

We both spent our formative years in NZ and DH was born there so has more of a pull… We moved over to the UK in our 20s.

DH thinks UK is in a dire economic and demographic position and the middle to well off will end up having to pay to bail us out from already taxed income. The rich have already left or have locked down their assets and protected themselves.

DH points out NZ has no stamp duty, virtually no capital gains tax, no inheritance tax. There is a reason millionaires are flocking there (we are not multi millionaires!). The NHS will be even more pressured as we reach old age and I wouldn’t be surprised if they stopped state pensions for anyone who owns a house worth over a certain amount or has, say, whatever the equivalent of £10k is in a savings account.

All dire predictions and catastrophising on my part has come true in recent years eg Brexit, Trump etc.

We (or our children) upon our demise will be handing over hundreds of thousands to the govt of already taxed income. Like many, the last few years have seen our standard of living drop. We are really lucky not to be anywhere near destitute or homeless. But there is no spare cash for any of the extras that made life fun. I can’t afford to pay more into my pension and I really should… there is no real scope to go beyond treading water.

The things that seemed realistic just a couple of years ago are out of reach now eg moving to our dream property.

I can see his point and agree we will be snookered here in old age. The main upside I can see of NZ is it beautiful, has great people and is further out of reach if we have nuclear war. BUT it’s dull and far away.

We have 2 DCs, a tween and early teen (years 6 and 8). They go to great schools which we are paying enormous sums for (sorry) and are getting the sort of opportunities we could only dream of in our youth. If we went back, we could send them to local schools where they at least have playing fields (we live in a city here). I don’t think private schools there offer the same value.

DH thinks we should cut our losses in the UK, sell up and resettle in NZ. He never used to feel like this and was always realistic about NZ’s strengths and weaknesses and the UK’s but he’s now very down on the UK.

The DC eulogise NZ as they have grown up with no close relatives here so think it must be amazing and they would live in sunshine forever more.

I remember it as boring, expensive with poor housing and a tad pretentious (in the circles I mixed in - prob as it was so small). Jobs and wealth were even more dependent on being connected whereas in the UK, if you have the skills, you can carve out a decent and interesting career.

Travel from NZ is expensive unless you want a trip
to Australia or the Pacific Islands. Asia is a short haul trip
and it’s at least 12 hours away…

I love European culture, food, history, architecture and nature. This continent has so much diversity and it’s just a short flight or even drive away. We would NEVER have access to this in NZ. I envisage my retirement as being filled with jaunts to the south of France in September, truffle gathering in Croatia in the autumn, long walks on Sardinian beaches in June, ambling through Seville during orange blossom season, island hopping in Greece in May, Christmas markets in Austria and Germany, summer trips to the Alps, short breaks to Budapest and Berlin…, revisiting the Hermitage in off season (if there is such a thing and if it is ever safe to go to Russia again).

Then there is the small matter of resettling DC. If we don’t go in the next year, it will be too late (and I doubt we can sell up by then). If we wait until DC have finished school, then we will
live on the other side of the world from them. Even if we move
them now, they will probably drift back to the UK for a few years at the very least in their 20s.

I’ve pointed all this out… what more can I say to convince DH this is a bad idea? Or am I wrong? Is there an alternative place I could propose to him? I don’t think anywhere is utopia. But is there anywhere better than here or NZ?

Don’t turn your life, and your kids’ lives, upside down for this whining poor-mouthing midlife crisis man. He’s like a toddler with a biscuit who is tantrumming because someone else might have a marginally bigger biscuit. The correct thing to do is ignore it, just tell him calmly he’s got a biscuit and he can either eat it and enjoy it, or ruin his teatime by screaming, it’s his choice

@Yazzi

But your linked article states this..

Which suggests it's a bulge period due to several years of people unable to go.

One of the people interviewed said one reason she wanted to move to the UK was be able to use public transport 🫤

For you NZ would not be a good option. But the vast VAST majority of people living in the UK don't pop over to anywhere in Europe other than perhaps a summer holiday to Spain or Portugal. Yet they will bang on about access to Europe.

Lots of people go to Europe for city breaks much more often than for a summer holiday.

Even if this is the case (arguable), what does it have to do with this poster?

Yeah, but that's speculation. She didn't produce any data such as exit interviews with young people as to whether they considered their move permanent or not. The only data produced, is that young people are leaving. And in record numbers.

I would move to NZ tomorrow if I could.

Wish I could live in NZ it’s a great place
I would run there to get out of uk
things in Uk are going to go to shit
it’s going to get worse here
button up and go

My best friend is in NZ, lived there all his life. Cost of living is high, mental health services are dire, jobs are few and far between, health care has to be paid for, the government are crap (worldwide that, granted!) rush hour traffic in city areas is awful, the majority of the roads are in a shocking state and the humidity in summer is a killer! Moaris call him a visitor even though it's his own country! Doesn't sound like anything but a long holiday destination to me to be honest! The scenery is stunning, but there would have to be more things to draw me there to live!

Here is my sensible advice:
I don't know you, your husband or new Zealand.
Rent your house out in England ( or buy a house to rent out if yours is too pricey.)
Rent somewhere in new Zealand in your preferred location. For at least 6 months, maybe a year.
See how all members of your family like it in practice.
(I'm worried about the kids because they will adapt easiest of all.) Perhaps you could present it to them as a long holiday?
Make your decision and if you decide to return to the UK, you have somewhere to live.

"I remember it as boring, expensive with poor housing and a tad pretentious (in the circles I mixed in - prob as it was so small). Jobs and wealth were even more dependent on being connected whereas in the UK, if you have the skills, you can carve out a decent and interesting career."
This will overide any idealistic views you may have of New Zealand. I found the same with Australia.

However, New Zealand is more expensive, Brits can be shunned by New Zealanders and they don't have a sense of humour. As for the UK it's only at the start of the recovery from 14 years of Tory regression. ie things can only get better.

they don't have a sense of humour.
lol

I cannot decide which bit of your post is the funniest - no sense of humour or the UK at the start of recovery.😁

That'll be your lack of sense of humour catching you out.

😂

Don't.
We have done just that during the pandemic and NZ is now in a mess.
There are no jobs, my DD lives in Wellington and can't get an interview as the government cut staff massively.
Auckland CBD is dead as people didn't come back after lockdown.
During the early stages of the pandemic it looked like we will be living a NZ renaissance, it was all a big party but the borders are now open, and young people are leaving in droves as no jobs and the salaries are very low, living costs high and property prices are astronomical.
Food is as expensive as in the UK but we earn in dollars not pounds.
The roads are crumbling, SH1 is a national shame and there's an energy crisis with the constant threat this winter of power cuts.
You are right about nuclear war but when China goes for Taiwan ( and Xi said is a when not if), we don't know if it will stop there or take the rest of Pacific .
Health care is a mess , in certain parts of the country you can't get a GP booking and some tests are rationed. We couldn't get a psychiatrist for money or love when my DD had severe MH issues as all MH professionals are fully booked for months.
Also you can't get the same prescription drugs that we have in the UK as the country and population are small and the national bargaining power with the drugs companies is small.
Education is a joke, if your kids are sporty they should do well but if not...
NZ had glory days in the 99's and early 00's but it is now over and it is starting to hurt quite bad.
A real shame.

Speak for yourself about not visiting Europe we take our teens to each of Paris/ Berlin / London /Amsterdam annually why wouldn’t you if can afford it?

What's funny?

Did I miss something?

What do you mean “ahh, another one”? We have the right to object to paying tax on already taxed income. IHT is a joke.

It depends on where in London you live, doesn’t it? Some parts are very bad, others are absolutely fine.

How's the state of your marriage, OP?

It's not unheard of for a spouse from NZ or Australia to twist the other spouse's arm to move back there "for the lifestyle" and then as soon as they get there, bam, divorce and you're on the other side of the world in their country and you can't take your minor children back to your country again.

an insanely macho and misogynistic society (which 98% of NZ'ers will be outraged by and deny, nevertheless it is true IMO.).

Hmm. Never been but it's so isolated is this because it's basically stuck in a kind of 1950's attitude?

Cold winters and no central heating? No thanks. Love the Maori culture though.

I really don't think he's going to find NZ any better in many ways. We have close relatives there and they have to wait 6+ weeks to get to see a GP.

Don't do it! Or, be seriously realistic about it. Just coming back from a year there. Beautiful and polite people. I couldn't take the isolation. Young people leaving in their droves as so few jobs.

I can understand your views on the UK. NZ isn't the answer (for me).