Looks likely a vote on assisted dying is imminent

[fragrantdog]

‘A vote to introduce assisted dying across the UK could be imminent after Downing Street reiterated that it would not obstruct a private member’s bill on the issue and indicated it would support an MP in drafting it.’

wot??

Are you serious? You want dying people to suffer in pain?
My grandmother died screaming bolt upright in bed - screaming in agony from cancer.

What about young children in agony with absolutely zero possibility of surviving but with weeks of agonising pain ahead of them?

What about people 99% paralysed can't even move their head and completely bed bound, facing fifty+ years of being bed bound unable to move?

Are you serious? You want dying people to suffer in pain?
My grandmother died screaming bolt upright in bed - screaming in agony from cancer.

What about young children in agony with absolutely zero possibility of surviving but with weeks of agonising pain ahead of them?

What about people 99% paralysed can't even move their head and completely bed bound, facing fifty+ years of being bed bound unable to move?

@XDownwiththissortofthingX Well said! Very well said

I've just gone off and read about it, thanks for the info.

"Of the 13,102 people who died using assisted death, 96.5% had terminal illnesses or faced imminent death. Only 463 people suffering from a chronic condition accessed Maid."

You're probably alluding to the 463 non-terminal patients, however we could easily just not widen to include them in UK law.

No, you're right.

None of the MPs who have come near the top of the ballot for private members' bills have said they will do a bill on this issue. At the moment it's a non-existent, hypothetical bill that labour wouldn't obstruct.

I think it came up because it was talked about at the Lib Dem conference (a Lib Dem MSP actually has brought forward a private members bill in Scotland on the issue).

I can agree that I want to choose my time of death, especially if I'm near death or going to get dementia.

But how to also protect those who dont want to die?
Those who are encouraged by family for various reasons.
Those who are outright bullied into an early death.
Those who are badly depressed. If youd asked me at 22, I'd have taken the option to die. I saw nothing worth living for back then.
And on.

I don’t know when your grandmother died but nobody needs to have a death like that any more.

Australia now has voluntary assisted dying available in almost every state. The rules are very strict - as they should be. And two of your examples would not qualify. Children are not eligible because they cannot consent. Disability such as quadriplegia would not meet the criteria unless death is considered imminent within 6-12 months and suffering is intolerable.

I am in favour of VAD and I think the laws in Australia are quite robust. However I always feel quite uneasy when the topic comes up on mumsnet. Firstly that people seem to accept without question that certain deaths will be horrendous and that the solution is assisted dying. Palliative care should be improved and I would want that to be done first because otherwise you risk VAD being a cheaper alternative to better palliative care.

Dementia is inevitably mentioned in these conversations without giving any consideration to how you ensure the person has capacity to consent. If you restrict VAD to situations where death is imminent then people with dementia will not have capacity. If you take that restriction away then you’ll have people robbing themselves of possibly years of meaningful life and open the possibility of coercion by relatives who don’t want to see inheritances eaten up by care costs.

I'm in exactly the same position.

I've always thought terminally ill people should have he right to chose when they die but having seen how things are working out in Canada I'm not so sure now. I have no problem with people being made aware that assisted dying is an option but there are veterans claiming they have been "offered" MAID more than once.

I agree about the attitude of the current government too and I'm concerned about how easily many people, who have spent years calling the Tories the nasty party, are now so pragmatic about the "tough choices" that need to be made to bring public spending under control.

I wonder how it might affect new treatments too. Will a government sanction spending tens of thousands on a new treatment or allow people to suffer so that assisted dying becomes preferable. New treatments are always more expensive to begin with but usually become cheaper over time and the research that leads to their development is valuable but I can't see anyone investing in researching terminal or life limiting diseases or illnesses if they cannot recover their costs.

I'd like to think we could learn from experiences elsewhere but I am not at all confident and I don't really want to live in a society where it's normal to treat sick or elderly people as an inconvenient expense.

Nobody who is opposed to assisted dying wants people to die in pain. Or is it ok to suggest that those in favour support coercion of people to choose assisted dying.

At the end of the day there is no totally right answer.

Vote against assisted dying and people are being prevented from dying before they suffer.

But vote for assisted dying and you are opening up an avenue for people to be coerced or guilted into dying, before they potentially want to. And this goes beyond Canada, anyone who believes that coercion doesn’t happen in countries with more longstanding laws is naive. And saying that only 4% of people in Canada were non terminal? That’s 4% too many, and the fact that it’s even possible shows everything in terms of what could go wrong.

Bring it on, my father shot himself after terminal diagnosis, I would have got to say goodbye.

This is brilliant. I'll steal this if you don't mind. It seems to be mostly religious thinking groups that, as usual, want to control the way other people live...or in this case die. You do what you want and when I'm told I have a terminal illness or dementia I want out long before the suffering thank you.

Let's hope common sense prevails and it does get passed.

Did you have a similar opinion when more than 18000 elderly people died in care homes during the pandemic due to the policy of discharging them untested from hospital?

My mum told me she would commit suicide if she was at a point of losing her faculties. Was not a pleasant conversation. She is a care worker. I was really upset at the thought. It being sudden to me and her being alone.

I watched my grandfather die from Parkinsons and was very much for the right to die. However, as a PP stated above, my worries now are not so much about unintended consequences of bad law, but rather about the very intended consequences of saving the NHS money.

The cases in Canada is not just about the numbers who have died, but about the change in attitude - multiple cases of veterans and those with disabilities being referred to MAID when they are asking for help. What kind of mindset is that in government? Sorry, you're too tricky to deal with, have you considered offing yourself?

I think it’d be better to read up on the Netherlands where it’s much more established tbh. I don’t even think Canada is the gotcha people seem to think it is. Yes there are cases that make headlines and that, reasonably, make you question your moral compass. A family holding down a dementia patient so a doctor could euthanise her in the Netherlands. A child bring euthanised in Belgium are the ones that stay with me. These are surely decisions taken between patients and their doctors and overseen by medical ethics committees?

Some of my relatives have had terrible ends, dragged out by so many medical interventions,. You wouldn’t have put a dog through it, we should be given a choice about death. The case of Diane Pretty is the one I remember in the UK, such a brave woman. She had MND and wanted a choice, she took it all the way to the European courts and lost. Where is our compassion as a society? Why should someone who is dying have to drown in their own saliva?

I genuinely wonder where we are as a society. The assumption that the NHS will just start killing off everyone expensive is quite frankly bonkers.

I agree, I'm British and there is still a lot of small mindedness about some things here. This subject definitely tends to bring that out. It's almost like "assisted dying? On no! We are far too superior for that".

I've been in favour for many years, I did nearly 30 years as a nurse, the idea that all dying patients are kept comfortable and pain free is a joke I'm afraid.

I think I'm just about in favour of it. But I am pessimistic about it being done well. I am hoping that eg if I had MND, it would be a bit like having patient-directed pain relief after an operation - evidence shows that if they know they can get pain relief any time, patients use less than staff would provide because they are in control. Just knowing that I could have a way out if I really needed it would reassure me.

Anyone who thinks end-stage dementia is a factor here should think again. I hope and think that anyone who doesn't have capacity to consent to medically assisted death couldn't have it. Otherwise that does seem like a royal road to abuse. I personally would want it available with a dementia diagnosis but still having capacity to decide - but perhaps I'm unusual in wanting to end life while I have regrets - I absolutely don't want to wait until it is unbearable. And that's going to be uncomfortable for many others.

Have you ever watched anyone die, when nothing can be done. It's cruel

Totally agree.

I'm so pleased that assisted dying is being considered again. My poor mum went through hell for years with Parkinson's, Lewy Body Dementia and finally cancer. It was horrendous and affected all of the family deeply. I feel traumatised by witnessing that she had to suffer. She pleaded with us to end her life at times, but we couldn't. Unless you have been in a similar scenario, you have no business telling others who have, that assisted dying is unethical. It would have been a Godsend for our family.

Presumably you have never been a n a situation watching a loved one suffer for years, crippled in their own body and also losing their mind, pleading for the release of death?

Assisted dying is legal in the country I live in and I'm very grateful. I have cancer and currently doing ok but should it become terminal and painful for both myself and my family and afford me no quality of life i am grateful to have this option

I think for end stage dementia you’d of had to make a decision in advance like in the Netherlands when you had capacity and agree with your doctor in a living will. Not many do tbf I think the stats are less than 7% of the people euthanised are suffering from dementia. Vast majority are suffering cancer/ other terminal illnesses.