Migrants - just curious......

[sunshinewithrain]

Are they genuinely so desperate that they will get in a rubber dingy to cross a dangerous sea to get to England?
OR
Are they 'sold' a dream?
OR
A mixture of both! And we don'it understand it properly .......
It's so sad all these people dying trying to cross the sea in such a dangerous way ......

@RedDeath614 You are talking about people who are legally in the UK via student visas who certainly didn't arrive in a dinghy across the channel.

Australia has the advantage of being geographically remote.

Australia also put a stop to '' boat people'' but UK doesn't seem to want to stop the crossings, just plays around with expensive schemes that never come to anything.

In the main

they have relatives in uk
thry speak english
they come from countries where England had an empire
they have a connection with uk

they will not get as much money as they would if they chose other European countries

there asylum process will take longer & it’s more difficult

If you were going on a dangerous journey

would you

a take your children with you
B leave them with someone and send for them on a safe journey once you’d arrived

''We have to stop the gangs''

Empty talk yet again.

I lived in the middle east and quite a few of my DC’s arab friends had been born in the USA or Canada. Their parents often had to travel and stay in the country months ahead of the birth to not be turned away from the border. All well educated people who were keenly aware of the advantages of a western passport. They weren’t in desperate straits or anything but it was seen as better for the children to be able to move freely to those countries or even just never living there but having the right passport. The difference is they had some money.

I think people have to bear in mind that economic instability or the environment in many countries makes even the crappiest area in the Uk look very attractive. I do think it’s driven by economic opportunity and most people just want better lives. There is zero chance that most have the skills that would get them a visa.

I was watching a documentary about people who had returned because they didn’t make it to the countries they had been aiming for (it was an african country can’t remember which). Many had basically lost family money (families would put the money together to send them) and were shunned, they all wanted to leave because they were skint not because of anything else. I completely get that, I’m from an immigrant family myself and just living in the west can change the entire direction of your family’s life, both your nuclear one and the family in your country of origin.

There are also people genuinely escaping specific threats from their own governments, some afghans, Iranians, Syrians, theres a Palestinian guy who had to get out of Gaza because he campaigned against Hamas. So there are people fleeing genuine persecution and are at very real risk of torture and murder. But I don’t think they are the majority.

I have all the sympathy in the world for someone who just wants their life to be better, we all generally want that. Most are young men who believe they are immortal, so even if they see boats sinking they don’t think it can possibly happen to them. Also you can see england from france, it probably doesn’t look like it could be that dangerous. I think traffickers lie, I think they tell them that they aren’t like the other traffickers and that their boat is safe. And once you are standing on that beach and spent thousands of pounds you have collected from your extended family or loans and you are so close, you are unlikely to say “no that doesn’t look safe” while some demented bastard is yelling at you and waving a gun.

Are they safe in France? Police violence ‘rarely punished’ at France-Belgium-UK border | openDemocracy

They were coming to Australia in leaky boats.
it seems to have slowed down, govt. has tightened security

To lighten up the thread, this is a real story of how stupid we are, the UK that is. A family I know are Soviet Jews. In the early 1990s they left the USSR for Israel, citing antisemitic feelings in their country. In the late 1990s early 2000s their sons were born and the parents did not fancy them serving in the army in any capacity, so they applied for asylum in the UK, citing, wait (!!!!!) - antisemitism towards Russian Jews in Israel, i.e. they were Yiddish speaking at home, not Hebrew, etc. And the UK government gave them asylum!!!! Because they were persecuted as Russian Jews in Israel! You could not make it up. They don't go to Israel though because I can imagine what would happen there to liars like these, but their parents, now very old, regularly come and visit them in the UK from Israel. People don't believe me when I say you can get asylum status in the UK, fleeing Israel as a Russian Jew, citing antisemitism.

Say massive civil war broke out in the UK. You could see some signs sonscrap together some cash and sell some valuables. Then an air strike comes and your house is demolished. You manage to grab some belongings and get on the toad with your family. The country is awash with militia raping and pillaginf. You then hear of someone offering passage to europe so you use all your resources to gst your family to safety.
for me i wouldnt stop in france aa my dad lives in Germany so i would push on to go and find refuge somewhere i knew somebody.

Most of the countries they are fleeing from were once part of the British Empire, so they know more about us (even if it's just a vague reputation). Migrants from old french colonies tend to head for France as their end destination (obviously the language there is also a massive draw).

Many are economic migrants.

Oh, risking drowning by getting into an overcrowded, unseaworthy dingy is just a pleasant change from the daily threat/experience of violence, beating, rape, bombong, torture, homelessness, starvation, disease and breakdown of all social structures.
Yes, they are as desperate as it is possible to be, and they are ripped ogff by unscrupulous bastards, then subjected to racist attitudes everywhere they go
Just like some posting here
So, not difficult to understand. Yabu for not educating yourself as to the reasons they are fleeing before now. It's hardly a new phenomenon

Surely the single males don’t go higher on the list than local people with children? I have a friend living in temporary accommodation with a toddler and a baby. It’s horrendous, they share a bathroom with addicts. She’s terrified all the time. She just clings onto assuming she must be getting close to the top of the list. Surely she overtakes a young single man even if he’s a migrant?

What I don't understand is it's allegedly £1500 per person these traffickers charge. So if these people are coming from the third world where are they getting the money to pay this fee upfront?

Generally only the middle classes with immigrate, it's seen as a massive flex, or young people (almost exclusively men) who have nothing much to lose.
The £400 people are quoting s pocket money while their asylum is processed lol, as soon as it is they're entitled to UC the same as any British citizen.

I'm not convinced even middle class third world people can afford the excessive upfront fees the traffickers charge. Various studies have suggested it's a lot more than £400 too. It's around the £1500 figure.

I assume to some countries it would be expensive bur the payoff is worth it. The £400 I referred to wasn't to do with traffickers but the money given per month to live on while in the asylum process system. So essentially free money before they are even granted asylum. Obviously after that it goes up to whatever they're entitled to on top of housing benefit.

Ah yes, that nation of safety, Syria! The land of milk and honey, not!

In my work, I come into contact with these asylum seekers who are mostly economic migrants and they quite openly say they've come here for the benefits system as soon as they land they put up in hotels given food and money education with no expectation to work until they are granted their right to stay status.

Often they've slept rough three months in France waiting for the opportunity to get to England . I've even had to arrange French interpreters as the part of Africa they come from is French-speaking, why on earth would they leave France to come to England other than the financial benefits? 95% male in the 20s and 30s mostly claiming to be under 18.

Some are fleeing persecution, but agree that they pass many safe countries on their way to the U.K. Most are economic migrants sold a dream.