Possible to emulate a private school education?

[Palmolivia]

We are not in a grammar area so the dc will be attending a state secondary in a couple of years.. We cannot afford private school but I'm looking for ways to emulate a private school education. Is it possible & if so ideas please?

This. And making friends with the children of influential people in your town/city.

Museums, showing an interest in current affairs and discussing it with your child in an age appropriate way, travel if you can, extra curriculars. All those things will help.

Also give your children the opportunity to experience additional things relating to the topics they are studying at school. Studying the Titanic? Take them to the Titanic museum. Studying Shakespeare? Take them to a play.

Comparison to others??? Seriously?! This is terrible advice for any child - whether state or private educated.

Perhaps im being naive here, but why wouldn’t state schools have this? Plenty of successful people came out of the state system and are proud of their success, no?

My kids go to state schools. Son plays cricket so lots of his friends are at private schools. This does mean he mixes in those circles. He has a good friend who takes him to the golf club, to cricket at Lords etc. it's not that these things themselves are important but I think it's good that he doesn't feel intimidated by them, or by wealthier people. His cricket friends are all lovely btw. No issues at all there regarding class difference. His school.frie do however do call him.posh as he plays cricket!

We are both teachers so can support them educationally but they have a French tutor once a week as well as this isn't our area.

We will take them to galleries, the RSC etc. and just try to give them as many experiences as possible.

My experience in education is that they don't get a better education in private schools. (Most pay less so why would they get the best staff?). It's the connections and the extra curricular that you pay for so there are ways to achieve that.

That's not proof that private schools are sending children in Year 7 to such places. Complete falsehood you've written earlier. I've never heard of it in any of the circles I move and as I've written, I'm well plugged into the private school network in London.

The page you've just posted there from Oxford is the first time I've ever seen it. We're certainly not posted in that direction.

This despite DD who was on the Oxbridge path and has never seen this. I've never seen it, she's never seen it. Why can't people just admit they've made something up and apologise?

That would be the polite thing to do instead of doubling down and trying to find poor evidence that what you wrote it true.

Find me one person who has been to private school who has had a school trip to a university open day in Year 7? It's just not true.

DD went to Oxford and Cambridge in Year 11 and was taken by the school as she is academically very able. Not everyone gets to go.

Yes, that's 4.5 years after what you posted. There is no child from any private school going in Year 7 from my knowledge. It's far too early to assess academic potential and the necessary qualities for such a place like Oxbridge.

She didn't go to an open day, she didn't visit the universities.. She went to have a look round the towns and meet an ex-pupil to talk to who was currently studying there. That was it. Nothing else. Nada. No special privileges like the red carpet rolled out by these institutions because a handful of privately educated kids had turned up.

She went to pizza express for lunch. And then they all came home on the bus. Hardly life-changing. She's not going to Oxbridge anyway. It's not for her.

FYI, approx 65 to 75% of children who now go to Oxbridge are from state schools.

And from what I can on the page you posted, anyone can access that page and take up the offer of advice, including state schools... or parents from any area of the UK or demographic... so I'm not sure what it proves anyway: I don't think anywhere does it say that this advice is purely for privately educated kids, does it? That would fly in the face of their policy to bring in many more state school educated kids. And rightly so.

For me the biggest difference is confidence. No idea how you'd go about replicating that or how it is that private school manage to install it. We're in a part of London that has lots and lots of private schools and the confidence and polish of private school pupils is very impressive.

They (schools and parents) essentially drum it into the children from the outset that they are better than other children and more privileged. Not sure if it borders on confidence or arrogance.

Yeah it’s arrogance.

And I think that self assurance (arrogance) is hard to recreate if your lid doesn't go to a school that will build that into them from day one.

I’ve attended both independent and state schools, the biggest difference was the drive to succeed at indie? Parents were far more involved in their child’s education and wanted them to achieve as they’d spent big bucks.

When I moved to a supposedly “ high achieving” state secondary this drive was not nearly so evident. There were a lot of people who were struggling to put food on the table and students who had been roped into gangs/antisocial behaviour. It was a real eye opener for sheltered, private school me. However this state school had amazing extra curriculars, library etc. and had educated a number of prime ministers.

I think I’m of the view that a determined child with great parental support will do well anywhere. Although the state school was an eye opener it was definitely for the better- I had been massively sheltered being at a posh day school! I also feel that this experience of dealing with people from all different backgrounds was highly important.

By offering your DC a wide range of extra curricular activities, sports, reading to them, taking them to classical music concerts/art galleries/museum you could emulate the independent school environment.

My kids have done a mix of private and state.
I have worked in private and state schools.
At the state schools, it annoyed me that they did not encourage public speaking ie - projecting your voice, connecting with the audience. They allowed the kids to mutter, heads down in tiny voices when doing a play, or speaking in an assembly. It's not hard to tell the kids to look up and speak out. Same with singing.

I was amazed at the first Xmas concert at the private school. Kids were speaking out to a packed hall and singing with all their might. The audience all sang too. It was amazing.

I think confidence like this can easily be achieved if only the state schools aimed for higher standards.

May be go along to the open evenings and see what's on offer?

Not all local comps are shit. If you are in a non-grammar school area there will be no creaming off the bright children and the comprehensive schools in the area will have a wider range of abilities of pupils there. Staff there will be used to teaching a wide range of abilities.

Talking to a younger niece in a private school. (Not a premier league one but not one in the Northern Conference either) my school was better equipped than hers was.

So differences?
Some private schools may run with smaller classes? Not much you can do about this.
Networking amongst parents. Possible in any school but there is less of a school gate culture in secondary schools. But you can chat whilst on the touchline.
Extra curricular. it's quite possible to sign up for music/instrumental lessons, gyms, athletics clubs yourself for out of school sessions.

My DW picked up a few privately educated children in her junior school. Y5 - couldn't read. Just because you pay for education doesn't mean it is good or well suited to your child.

How can you make a difference - chatter to your children, show and take an interest in what they are doing, what they are interested in, help them develop interests. give them opportunities.

So go to several open evenings - it's quite normal for Y5 children to go along.
Compare schools, get a feel for them, see how your child could fit in.

Finally READ the admissions criteria. Don't try to play the system by just putting 1 down. If it's full you'll get what's left which may not be your second choice.

This all sounds very pushy. I guess the competitive schools are like this. How sad that your friend was embarrassed with a B. The talk of 'bright'/'not very bright' as if it defines a person is common at private schools, even the teachers used to do it where I went. Still happens today and puts me off such schools for my dc's because I don't care how bright or not they are, I just want them to be happy and fulfilled.

This recommendation has made my day! This seems like such a great option in conjunction with instruments and drama.

Well that's just rude?

As I said not EXACTLY open days, let's call it Oxbridge grooming to remove any confusion.

Schemes like this are open to state and private schools, though it is far more common for children from private schools to attend.

I've seen some pretty young'uns walking around campus for "tours of the library" and "science expos".

Have you worked in a top tier university? I have, and I have seen it.

Also, to reiterate, not ALL private schools would offer things like this??

Don't know why you jumped on my message to the OP. I am not invested on this discussion at all...

Cambridge has outreach programs for those that got above certain GCSEs Dd went on a coach and stayed a night at one of the smaller colleges. She came back determined not to go there 🙄😀.

I have always wondered if kids have to take GCSEs in year 11 or if taking them before is an option- this has answered that question! What subjects did your DCs take or is this something you heard about from others?

Because you’re making up porkies saying “many” ie, bus loads of year 7s are are going to visit top tier universities on open days and being told from day one that’s what they should be aiming for. And that this is normal.

But. It’s. Not.

it’s completely untrue.

I don’t like people who lie and double down on their answer instead of saying ok I exaggerated a bit, sorry, I’m wrong.

Saying you’ve seen some “young uns”. How do you know they’re with a school? Are they in uniform? How would you know they are visiting the university? Were you inside all of them watching for year 7s? How very weird!!

But you can’t be honest. You weren’t there and there are no year 7s visiting Oxbridge, Warwick, UCL etc. you’d have covered a vast landscape if your statement were true to verify this.

If you write something blatantly untrue expect people to “jump on it”.

I see 7% of the country has been called arrogant by another poster. Thanks for dehumanising around 4.5 million people in the U.K.

Its these sorts of sweeping statements that need to be questioned.

Theres the truth and fact and then there’s spurious comments designed to create division and hatred.

And you are guilty of that. No doubt you’ll be thinking “posh rich fucker who attended private school” reading this response instead of reflecting inwardly on the fact you made something up on a post because envy is a nasty thing that makes people behave unkindly.

Here’s what you wrote again;

“From year 7 many kids in private schools are going to open days at top unis and are being told they are the students the uni wants (does wonders for self confidence/ambition)”

Do you still say that that statement is true?

We are lucky. Our state schools offer chess club that compete with the local private. PE offerings include hockey, cricket and lacrosse over just Netball and Football. That has come about as a result of pressure from parents. Where teachers don't offer extra curricular like Chess, they are run by parents. The PTA and donations cover chess boards for kids to take home and practice.

The music provision is poor but there are local charities that offer music school. We have 3 hours of music / orchestra ensembles a week for £2 a week. Including 2:1 lessons.

The biggest difference I note between my kids and relatives who are at popular privates (think Cheltenham LC, Oundle, Uppingham, Eton etc.) is confidence. It's not the academics. It's 100% confidence.

Even though we are in a similar wage bracket to many of the parents in the private school category and can give the children connections and we have high expectations, our kids are not as confident as others.

For me, that comes 100% from school. There is an attitude that success is not to be celebrated as it makes others "feel bad". Compared with private school where I think the culture in school is more demanding.

What school fails to recognise is that all kids are good at something so you need to find that. Rather than just celebrate nothing.

Thank you! This is what MNetters deny all the time - "bright kids will do well anywhere" is a load if tosh for most bright kids who end up in a crap secondary. I see it all the time!

It’s the truth. The genuinely clever and self-motivated kids will do well anywhere, including in disruptive surroundings with burnt-out teachers. Poverty, and seeing exactly what your future will be like if you don’t use education as a way out, is a motivator that can’t be bettered.

I'm a barrister (now a KC) who went to a comprehensive school and then to Oxford. When I started out, I definitely didn't have the confidence and polish of my privately educated peers. I don't necessarily think that was a bad thing. However, one thing that really did make a difference to me was the emphasis in Wales (where I went to school) on performance. All the way through my education, we were encouraged to perform in Eisteddfods (Welsh cultural festivals with competitions for kids and adults). It could have been singing, recitation, playing an instrument, at school, county or national level. Pretty much everyone did something and I think it made me much more ready to do public speaking when a teacher eventually introduced me to debating in 6th form.

My kids had a Welsh music teacher at their state primary and although the structure isn't there, she has tried to instil the same ethos for them. It really works; my shy 12 year old was happy to audition for the school play in secondary as were his friends who went to the same primary.

Not sure this helps much OP, but I think if it's confidence you're seeking, a good music/performance side is an important thing to look for in a state school.

Oh and just on connections, I think sometimes those who were privately educated misunderstand what people mean. It's not that you're hobnobbing with the PM. It's more that the vast majority of parents have well paying professional jobs and that becomes your normality. At least with barristers you see them on the telly. That's not true of a variety of other professional roles.

I went to a comprehensive state school.

Outside of school, I was in swimming club, did some musical stuff (though violin lessons were mostly in school,) I did DofE, I did Young Farmers, which included Christmas dramas and public speaking contests, as well as more agricultural stuff. I was in the museum club. Friends did various things outside of school, like Guides, Girls Brigade, dance, drama, various musical things, various sports (judo, gymnastics, athletics club, netball, tennis, riding - the boys had the cricket and rugby clubs, which we supported the funds of at the bar in 6th form...) It was a small town, but loads going on if you wanted and could afford club subs.

Early in 6th form, the head took aside those of us they thought capable of Oxbridge and said if we wanted to go for it, they'd give us extra tutoring and support. (I didn't get in, but I tried.)

However, I've a close friend who works in a top public school, and the money they can throw at sports facilities and coaching is unreal. At least 4 boys left with professional sports contracts last year. They do well academically because they're selective, too.

I think you can offer a lot of extracurricular stuff outside of school, but it depends where you are and what's available, plus how much taxiing around you're willing to do. I lived out of toen with no public transport, so there was a lot of our teenage years where my parents and my best friend's parents were coordinating which of them was taking us to swimming (Mondays), YFC (Thursdays), DofE (Wednesdays)...