Very difficult work situation - menopause related - advice/experiences needed

[Woofwoofwoofgoesthewolfhound]

I'm one of the senior managers in a small marketing & design agency.

One of the other senior managers recently hired a woman into his team. She's got a strong CV with an excellent record and the specific technical experience we were looking for. She's been in the role for a couple of months and the quality of her work has been exemplary.

But. She is suffering very badly with menopause-related symptoms, specifically rage, which appears uncontrollable. In the short time she has been with us she has already caused huge upset within the team by being rude, critical, argumentative, quick to anger, and basically very disruptive. Her presence has completely unbalanced what was previously a pretty harmonious team, and her manager (my colleague) is struggling to control the situation. A couple of the younger members of the team (one man, one woman) have said privately to him that they are finding the situation extremely upsetting and cannot continue working with her.

I know this could be interpreted as her teammates not liking a capable middle-aged woman who speaks her mind, but honestly that isn't what is going on here - her behaviour has been genuinely awful at times and completely unacceptable in the workplace.

Obviously this has been raised with her directly and she is aware of the problem and clearly very upset about it herself, but says that what she is experiencing feels genuinely uncontrollable. She's seeking help via her GP.

We (the management team) are now facing the difficult decision of what to do about the situation. On the one hand, she is doing great work and we have no reason not to believe her that her behaviour is entirely menopause-related - there are no red flags at all in her CV and she was with her previous employer for a long time and had a good reference. She is actively trying to get help. But on the other hand, we have a duty of care to the rest of the team who are on the receiving end of her rage.

It isn't possible to redesign her role to enable her to work independently of the rest of the team - collaboration is part and parcel of the role. So we have the option of either letting her go now (she is still in her probation period) or expecting the team to suck it up until she is able to find something that helps her.

I'm completely torn on this. As a fellow middle aged woman myself, it feels utterly awful that a woman should lose her livelihood because of the impact of something that is beyond her control. But we have a duty of care to our employees who are understandably feeling bruised and upset by her behaviour.

I'd really appreciate hearing from other people who have been in this situation, either as a manager or as employee (either as the one suffering, or as someone who has been impacted by someone who is).

I take Kalms for the meno rage, it works for me, might just be the placebo effect but it really stops the rage, suggest it to her maybe as a short term solution until she gets the help from her GP. :)

Would she consider going off sick for a period of time while she sees her GP and starts doing whatever they recommend?

Effectively at the moment you could either sack her, or carry on with her on a PIP so sick leave may be a better option if both parties are keen to see her continue in the future.

Which would be worse, losing team members when they find other jobs, or losing her?

I totally get why this is a difficult decision, but you have to take the feelings out of it and look at it with your business head on.

Her behaviour is unacceptable in the workplace, no matter what's causing it. The business has a duty of care towards its other employees too, who are entitiled to be able to carry out their jobs without having to suffer her verbal abuse.

She has to go. Either temporarily, by being signed off sick or taking unpaid leave until her issues are resolved, or permanently.

I feel terrible saying this but surely you have to terminate her contract.

She hasn’t passed her probation period as clearly there are quite significant issues. Isn’t that the whole point of a probation period, that you can find this out and not continue if it’s not working.

Also if you let someone who is verbally abusive to other staff pass their probation period you are not protecting your other staff.

She's been in the role for a couple of months and the quality of her work has been exemplary.

No it hasn't. She is required to work in a team alongside other staff. Flying into rages, disturbing the other staff and unsettling your entire team means she is failing in a key area of her work responsibilities.

Would you genuinely say her rage and behaviour is not within her control?

I think it's a slightly different situation depending on the answer to this. Either way, she needs to go, or sort it out.

The company is aware she has a condition that that is adversely affecting her at work and could be long term.

It needs to be treated the same as any new joiner disclosing they have a potential long term health condition that could impact their work.

Especially as this COULD be considered a disability under the Equality act 2010.

So thats hold a welfare meeting. Discuss concerns and impact. Discuss what she is doing to help her condition. Get occ health involved if necessary. Implement reasonable adjustments (wfh on bad days, rearrange meetings if poss etc). Monitor. Then if no improvement look to dismiss for capability.

We had a very difficult situation with a guy with EUPD. His behaviour may not have been his fault, but by the end of it people were scared of him and refusing to work with him. I was honestly scared of him. Shouting, kicking furniture, storming out, punching desks.

In the end 4 people notified our manager and HR of their intention to leave if he was not removed within a month.

He still works for the company but he's usually either signed off, or placed on projects where he doesn't work with a team.

i would fire her

This is a very good question.

It's hard to say because we don't know her. Obviously if she had been with the business for twenty years and been a wonderful employee and colleague all that time, it would be a very different - I can say right now that we would do everything we possibly could to support her. But we have no idea if she has always been a difficult person.

Previously I would have said that menopause is no excuse for poor behaviour at work and there is no such thing as "uncontrollable" rage. But I've spent some time reading menopause threads on here and some of the stories are heart-breaking - women who've found their relationships destroyed, careers in tatters and their lives turned upside down as a result of menopause. And many stories of how profoundly life-changing HRT can be. I just don't know, its very hard.

Yes, but most new joiners with a health condition requiring adjustments would ordinarily have made that clear at the outset, and been employed on that basis.

I hadn't considered that option (stupidly). I think that is definitely an option worth exploring, thank you.

Or another way of looking at it - if a male new joiner disclosed they had a MH condition which meant they can sometimes withdraw and not communicate or join in meetings etc, which makes it difficult for colleagues, and they had made a gp appointment to discuss, would you look to dismiss as a first course of action in that situation if their actual work outputs were fine?

If not, why? What's the difference?

And it absolutely can be uncontrollable. Hence lots of women requiring medication to help.

Yes, you're right, I had considered that this could possibly fall under disability discrimination and that we need to be mindful of that. Thank you.

There is no obligation for employees to disclose any conditions. A lot don't for fear of offers being withdrawn

Peri meno /meno symptoms can be considered a disability if its happened over a long period of time. So you need to treat carefully on how you proceed.
I'd be sitting down with her and asking to do an OH assessment to recommend measures she can take. You need to be clear that flying into a rage with people is not acceptable , no matter what the cause, and that her work requires her to work collaboratively with others and that will be assessed as part of her probation. Do not solely focus on quality of output if you need people to work in teams.
She then needs to tell you along with OH support what adjustments she may need in order to do that eg frequent breaks, work from home on certain days etc. To help manage symptoms.

Ultimately you have a duty of care to all employees and so you have to consider the impact on them too. If she can't control symptoms and it does affect her ability to function in the environment, you would be wise to let her go during probation period.

Sorry but she can choose to control her rages by taking meds to calm her down.
Why should her co workers have to tolerate her moods.
Having worked with a supervisor who used "natural" meno support that seemed to do nothing it was a living hell.

So if she is not sacked how long does she get to change her behaviour? ...with the disgruntled staff.

Indeed, these are the kinds of questions I am asking myself. Although just to be clear, this isn't about being withdrawn and uncommunicative - we could absolutely deal with that. This is about openly aggressive behaviour, which is impacting other people. Rightly or wrongly, I actually think we'd probably be swifter to dismiss a male employee for aggression, MH condition or not.

It's the possibility that it is genuinely uncontrollable, and yet potentially has a relatively straightforward 'cure', which is giving me pause.

Perhaps not, but when their condition then has a severely negative effect on other employees, something has to be done to protect them in the workplace.

@Megifer It really doesn't matter whether a new employee is male or female, or whether the cause is mental health-related or severe hormonal difficulties. If that employee displays uncontrollable rage, is rude, critical, argumentative, quick to anger and disruptive, then the employer cannot ignore the adverse effect of that behaviour on everyone else.

@Woofwoofwoofgoesthewolfhound I feel sure that if you dig a bit deeper, you will find that she had those outbursts at her previous job also! i didnt have problems with menopause but I know a few people on her do. this didnt appear all of a sudden! her previous employers probably experienced this with her too. They were most likely, happy to see the back of her! She actually might be using menopause as an excuse for her anger. her age does not mean that she isnt lying!! I would get rid for the sake of all the other employees who are on the receiving end of her rage!

I used the withdrawn/uncommunicative as an example of the opposite also being an issue, with negative impact on others, but one that might be seen as less of a problem because it's not "crazy middle aged woman raging".

Cure isn't straightforward, it can take a bit of time to get the right meds sorted. Same as many health conditions.

Do the the team members know why she is struggling? Would she be prepared to disclose this so they have a greater understanding and can perhaps get less upset by it? I know it’s private so this may not be a possibility.
If you think she is potentially valuable the I’d perhaps do an extended probation, limiting her interactions as much as feasible in order to give her a chance to fix it??

Nobody should have to work with someone with "uncontrollable" rage. Get rid of her.

I think the referral to Occupational Health and the GP and sick leave approach while this is sorted out medically is really fair and reasonable. It will help the colleagues to understand that this is involuntary as well.

Isn’t the fair comparator to ensure that you avoid discrimination not a man, because they are irrelevant to menopause, but another woman of menopausal age? Are you treating her the same as you would treat another female colleague in same boat? As a peri/menopausal age woman yourself, this could be an easier way to think about it. So what would you feel is fair if you were in her shoes- which for all you know could happen?

Here’s where having a menopause policy and consultation with staff on it could really help your company for the future as well.

You sound like a great employer thinking through this issue in this careful and balanced way. I’m sure you will generate a lot of staff loyalty for this thoughtful and even handed approach. I wish more employers posted about these questions.