Very difficult work situation - menopause related - advice/experiences needed

[Woofwoofwoofgoesthewolfhound]

I'm one of the senior managers in a small marketing & design agency.

One of the other senior managers recently hired a woman into his team. She's got a strong CV with an excellent record and the specific technical experience we were looking for. She's been in the role for a couple of months and the quality of her work has been exemplary.

But. She is suffering very badly with menopause-related symptoms, specifically rage, which appears uncontrollable. In the short time she has been with us she has already caused huge upset within the team by being rude, critical, argumentative, quick to anger, and basically very disruptive. Her presence has completely unbalanced what was previously a pretty harmonious team, and her manager (my colleague) is struggling to control the situation. A couple of the younger members of the team (one man, one woman) have said privately to him that they are finding the situation extremely upsetting and cannot continue working with her.

I know this could be interpreted as her teammates not liking a capable middle-aged woman who speaks her mind, but honestly that isn't what is going on here - her behaviour has been genuinely awful at times and completely unacceptable in the workplace.

Obviously this has been raised with her directly and she is aware of the problem and clearly very upset about it herself, but says that what she is experiencing feels genuinely uncontrollable. She's seeking help via her GP.

We (the management team) are now facing the difficult decision of what to do about the situation. On the one hand, she is doing great work and we have no reason not to believe her that her behaviour is entirely menopause-related - there are no red flags at all in her CV and she was with her previous employer for a long time and had a good reference. She is actively trying to get help. But on the other hand, we have a duty of care to the rest of the team who are on the receiving end of her rage.

It isn't possible to redesign her role to enable her to work independently of the rest of the team - collaboration is part and parcel of the role. So we have the option of either letting her go now (she is still in her probation period) or expecting the team to suck it up until she is able to find something that helps her.

I'm completely torn on this. As a fellow middle aged woman myself, it feels utterly awful that a woman should lose her livelihood because of the impact of something that is beyond her control. But we have a duty of care to our employees who are understandably feeling bruised and upset by her behaviour.

I'd really appreciate hearing from other people who have been in this situation, either as a manager or as employee (either as the one suffering, or as someone who has been impacted by someone who is).

Allowing any member of staff to display such behaviour towards other members of staff is totally unacceptable. It does not matter why the person is doing it. Employers have a legal obligation towards all their staff.

The behaviour has to stop, one way or another. In this situation, if she is unable to control her behaviour, then she needs to be physically separated from the other staff. Either she has to WFH, she takes sick leave, or she is dismissed.

her behaviour has been genuinely awful at times and completely unacceptable in the workplace.

This is all that matters and the reasons behind it don't matter. I'm shocked that this has been allowed to continue.

I would ask her to take sick leave and seek treatment and if no improvement then move to fire her

No op, you’re terminating the employment of a probationary employee who is abusing the employees and displays uncontrollable rage in thr work place. Every single person who behaves like this has a reason.

No one is saying it's acceptable.

In this situation, the employer has to explore it further as they are aware the employee has a condition that could be considered a disability.

No it doesn’t make them a fair employer; it is the oopposite. Because it is not just about a middle aged woman. It’s about the other employees/

tne first incident of abuse and rage should have led to disciplinary. And then employment terminated if it continued. If the employee, cannot control themselves from abusing people. Be they a 40 year 0ld man or a 55 year old woman, then they need to be removed from the workplace.

no one, and I mean no one should be abused on the workplace and the fact employees are having to say and management not acting is abhorrent,

They can explore it further with the abusive employee removed from the workplace. This woman should not be allowed to work with other staff in the meantime.

Manage it through the probation process. Possibly extend probation by a couple of months. Make it clear that nobody in the workplace has to put up with being abused. Be prepared to terminate her contract.
ACAS might be helpful.

Op maybe see if you can get this moved to the employment board if you want proper advice on how to handle this that reduces the risk of a tribunal.

Yes, the risks of a tribunal from the employees who aren't being protected from this woman.

the impact of something that is beyond her control

Should be treated like any other illness, suppose it was a psychiatric illness that made her unpleasant, or a physical malady like chronic pain. Whatever policies companies have for dealing with those situations should also apply. There must literally be heaps of exemplar policies on the Internet that you could adopt & apply. The rest of your employees deserve to have a safe pleasant place to work, too.

Very very few people have ‘uncontrollable’ rage. However I do accept that menopause, PMS, EUPD and other issues may significantly impact on a person’s ability to manage that anger/rage. And some of those same people may also have a predisposition to being angry/easily frustrated/unpleasant and at times display this to others.

re the lady I question, I’d imagine that in certain circumstances she would control her rage/anger as their would be repercussions and consequences if she didn’t. So say if the police stopped her for a suspected minor offence, I expect she’d control her anger then. Or if she was on a date, or an event that was of benefit to her, or if 2 large men annoyed her?

In her current role, if she feels totally unable to respect her colleagues and if her behaviour is impacting on her work and the overall function of the team (including colleague relationships) then she isn’t fit or suitable for the role.

some of us are employed in many roles where this behaviour would be completely inappropriate and not tolerated. For example I couldn’t abuse my patients if I was feeling angry. Nursery nurses, retail staff, they deal with all kinds of challenges they can’t be given special exceptions to allow them to be abusive.

Not really, CD hard to prove and usually has to be a "the last straw" situation and/or after exhausting the grievance process and employers defence would be they were working with the employee who could have had a disability causing the issues and while investigations were taking place they had put in adjustments e g. WFH etc.

Employer can also of course work with those affected and allow them to e.g. take themselves out of the situation if escalating and so on while this is all sorted

I bet she doesn't do it to her children or a baby or to a random huge bloke on the tube. She can control this. It might be hard but she can control it.

Completely unfair for colleagues to deal with people acting like this.

....is it menopause or is she just an angry person. I used to suffer with anger during the menopause but was perfectly capable of sitting on that anger at work.

If I didn't want to risk the team leaving, I'd give her a warning with a view to getting rid of her if nothing improves.

You do know it’s the same posters. It’s not a seperate website don’t you?

Yes, external HR consultants do exist. A friend of a friend runs her own business doing exactly this.

Yep. Tends to be frequented by people who know about this subject from a legal/HR standpoint though so might be more helpful to op 😊

Agree, and it could be considered a disability but she would need to go a long way to prove it, and she should have declared it on employment. You cannot just abuse folks and claim oh it is the menopause and I’m disabled. Oops,should have told you I do this and can’t work with people without abusing them. My bad.

Those posters frequent other areas.

You are absolutely right that PMDD sufferers and menopausal women do not chose these behaviours. Now menopausal and a PMDD sufferer since my teens (although in my teens PMDD wasn’t even a thing) I have been a slave to my hormones my entire life: aggression, rage, suicidal thoughts, confusion, insecurity, withdrawal to name just a few symptoms.

I commend you for reading up on these conditions and trying to do right by all the employees.

In my opinion, she will be aware of her outbursts but have no control over them or their ferocity. HRT can help enormously but she may also need something for the rage. I take HRT and a low dose anti-depressant for the rage, the anti-depressant I increase if I know I’m going to be in a difficult situation eg.over Xmas when the in-laws descend. It took me a year to get the right balance of medication, although there was an immediate decrease in menopausal symptoms once I started medication.

I’ve no suggestions how to move forward with your employee, I’ve worked with bullies so can see both sides of your situation, I just wanted to give you an insight into ‘hormonal rage’.

This is what I don’t get, and I’ll hold my hands up and say I’m not an expert. But surely having a disability doesn’t give you free rein to abuse your colleagues?!

Not my area of expertise at all, but isn't she protected by sex discrimination laws from day 1? I think you need to get an HR consultant to give you advice, otherwise you could end up at an employment tribunal.