Lucy Letby in the news

[Viviennemary]

I've just been watching the BBC news and apparently some experts have been questioning the validity of Lucy Letbys conviction. I must say when I read the details of the trial she did sound 100% guilty. But it would be a tragedy if she is innocent Personally I don't think she is but who knows. Somebody on the news said the only person who knows is Lucy Letby.

This is modern times, where we all think we know the full evidence. We don't.

For me, the evidence against her was overwhelming. Her own writings were a huge part of that, as I understand it.

The ganging up of Nurses against nasty Doctors; her presence at so many events.

There's lots of debate on this thread OP if this helps at all

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5115849-to-think-the-lucy-letby-case-needs-a-judicial-review?reply=136649258

If there was overwhelming physical evidence she was guilty then how could she be innocent?

Not the same but if someone was on CCTV killing a person and there was heaps of DNA and 10 witnesses then yes a clear case of guilty

So either the evidence is not enough and the jury conviction was questionable

No I don't know enough of the case to know what evidence was in the trial but you would hope there was no question she was guilty seeing she was convicted

Not a case of public opinion deciding but actual evidence should have convicted her

I’m so tired of seeing her and hearing about her. I cannot imagine what it’s doing to the families of her victims. In this day and age she would not have been charged and found guilty unless there was overwhelming evidence.

She actually carried out a miscarriage scan on me. Out of all the healthcare professionals I saw throughout three pregnancies, she was the only one that DH and I really remember because she was so lacking in empathy for our situation. She was cold, irritated with me being upset and just unpleasant. She really upset me in what was already a traumatic situation. So I have zero interest in her being given any sympathy.

I haven’t followed as closely as some but read a bit. The statistics expert who was querying how a chart had been presented. I can take his point data looks cherry picked - except the response being the chart didn’t contain all the other collapses because they weren’t ’out of the ordinary’ unexpected/unexplained so to speak.

So I think even the rebuttals needs to be questioned and aren’t gotchas.

I don’t think the conviction was safe, in the sense I don’t think it was beyond reasonable doubt. I have no idea if she was innocent or guilty. But we do require for good reason that people only be convicted if there is no reasonable doubt.

Since when do neonatal nurses do miscarriage scans?

I'm not saying you're making this up but it sounds very unusual.

Maybe we should have just skipped the 10 month multi million pound trial and decided via a mumsnet aibu vote?

Are you sure it was her? I’ve never seen anything about her being a sonographer as well as a neonatal nurse.

I have wondered this myself. It was the early pregnancy unit. She really didn’t seem like she wanted to be there, I know that much. But I assumed that those areas are interlinked, same building, they may rotate to get experience?

But we are sure it was her. I had already been thinking so when we saw it in the news when it first happened. Then when DH saw it, he said so too, without me having mentioned it.

My DC were born either side of her time there. I have friends whose DC were in the NICU at the time these babies were killed. Nobody wants this dragging on in the media like this.

When I was working in midwifery, for a 4-5 months, every single woman I cared for needed something like an emergency cesarean, forceps, I even had a shoulder dystocia and a very poorly baby as a result.
I was the common demoninator and it really impacted me. In fact this was the trigger for a period of time where I was suicidal and ultimately quit my career. I used to write in my journals similar things to what Letby did.
Reading people saying she must be guilty based on her own writing chills me to the bone because they would have found me guilty (of what I don't know) the same way.
I do believe there is way more to this than meets the eye. This is a very shaky conviction.

Well the collapses which they did cherry pick weren’t unexplained/unusual until they were. They’d been put down as natural causes deaths, not murder. And I believe that’s what was put down on their death certificates.

So what makes this “expert” (who has never worked as a neonatologist I don’t believe) decide what’s unexplained and what isn’t? Is it confirmation bias and he has a theory and then discounts anything which doesn’t fit?

See my last post explaining - we can never be absolutely sure, but both DH and independently of each other thought it was her as soon as we saw her on the news.

They don't.
At all.
Neonatal nursing is a branch of children's nursing.
EPU and miscarriage scans are done by sonographers (radiographers) and trained adult nurses and midwives.
A children's nurse would be no where near an adult patient.

Ok. I’m obviously wrong. She must have had a doppelgänger in the same building!

A judge doesn’t sentence a whole life order without reason.

Sonography is a totally different job to being a neonatal nurse. A nurse can train as a sonographer but you have to go to uni for ages and train up. You don’t just rotate for experience. She was so young when arrested I really don’t think she’d have been able to do her sonography training in that timescale, not with the extended skills courses for neonates she’d done. You only get so much training at a time.

x post.

Convictions are overturned on a regular basis.

Also, I have had a few pregnancies and I did have someone scan me who I later saw in the unit… but not the same county or hospital so can’t really comment.

This. Is impossible, honestly.

The main trigger for doubt is that the babies were so prem and so frail - many below the abortion limit - that not that much is known about why they live, let alone why they die.

Not enough is known in this very new type of medicine to convict Letby without doubt, that’s for sure.

Leaving medical evidence aside, the other bone of contention is that the other types of evidence - stats - were misread, which they were.

I’ve read the bbc article, I think there is a possibility she might be innocent and the deaths in her care just a coincidence. The scribbled notes and Facebook searches are not proof of guilt. It’s a shame the insulin evidence was not properly checked as that would have been proof without a doubt. Miscarriages of justice do happen like in the Amanda Knox case who was convicted because she was odd. Letby is also a bit odd.

A neo-natal nurse does not do this.

@mnahmnah but she was a child trained nurse (I know because I trained with her on the same course)

We didn't have any adult training, nor did we have any training on ultrasounds. The only people who do ultrasounds in Chester are sonographers
Or radiologists.

I also worked in arrowe park for a bit same as her because it was a level up from countess' icu.

I moved to a different hospital afterwards and she went back to Chester. I was beyond shocked at her arrest.