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Lucy Letby in the news

1000 replies

Viviennemary · 29/08/2024 22:33

I've just been watching the BBC news and apparently some experts have been questioning the validity of Lucy Letbys conviction. I must say when I read the details of the trial she did sound 100% guilty. But it would be a tragedy if she is innocent Personally I don't think she is but who knows. Somebody on the news said the only person who knows is Lucy Letby.

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Nc209 · 30/08/2024 01:03

I thought the New Yorker article restrictions had been lifted? I wonder has it been restricted again because she's appealing the verdict of the re-trial.

I thought she wasn't appealing that as the date had passed for her to submit it and none was announced but one of the recent newspaper articles did briefly mention that there was an appeal pending.

Obelism · 30/08/2024 01:04

Well tbh I was under the impression that it was now available too but 🤷‍♀️

twilightermummy · 30/08/2024 01:06

I think that she's guilty however, I sadly think that her conviction will be quashed in the future.

Nc209 · 30/08/2024 01:08

Obelism · 30/08/2024 01:04

Well tbh I was under the impression that it was now available too but 🤷‍♀️

I'm not in the UK so I can see it so I'm not sure what people from the UK see when they click on the article but I'm almost sure that it was definitely unblocked in the UK after the trial for a while anyway!

Forevafatty · 30/08/2024 01:12

Nc209 · 30/08/2024 01:08

I'm not in the UK so I can see it so I'm not sure what people from the UK see when they click on the article but I'm almost sure that it was definitely unblocked in the UK after the trial for a while anyway!

Perhaps it is available and I've misunderstood, sorry. I definitely can't seem to find or access it though.

Mirabai · 30/08/2024 01:14

It can be read nonetheless on @Obelisms link.

Telephonewiresabove · 30/08/2024 01:18

The article has been archived many times on the Wayback Machine site.

NoButBut · 30/08/2024 01:20

Nc209 · 30/08/2024 00:21

The evidence just didn't convince many people.

I don't think it's anything to do with her specifically.

It probably does for some people. If she was another person, some armchair judges, jury and lawyers wouldn't care to go through her case unpaid with a fine tooth comb the way they're doing with Letby, using incomplete resources, mind. Just to find something to prove her supposed innocence. They'd be doing the opposite.

PyongyangKipperbang · 30/08/2024 01:21

twilightermummy · 30/08/2024 01:06

I think that she's guilty however, I sadly think that her conviction will be quashed in the future.

What makes you think that she is guilty?

There is literally no evidence to suggest that those babies were murdered at all, much less that she was the one who did it (if indeed they were).

NoButBut · 30/08/2024 01:22

Allthegoodnamesarechosen · 29/08/2024 23:23

It’s pretty strange to be convicted of murders which no one has yet proved took place. The babies, who were very sick, died, and no one at the time thought they were anything other than natural ( and not unexpected) deaths.

Cases like this are the best argument against the death penalty.

Not at all. The death penalty should not be given on a case where there's a grain of doubt. It has to be left for the most 'caught red-handed' of cases, so this case has nothing to do with the death penalty argument.

NoButBut · 30/08/2024 01:23

SomeFinElse · 29/08/2024 23:28

This is perfectly put.

Nope it isn't.

PyongyangKipperbang · 30/08/2024 01:24

NoButBut · 30/08/2024 01:22

Not at all. The death penalty should not be given on a case where there's a grain of doubt. It has to be left for the most 'caught red-handed' of cases, so this case has nothing to do with the death penalty argument.

But there is a hell of a lot more than a "grain of doubt" in this case, a whole bucketful of doubt would be more appropriate.

NoButBut · 30/08/2024 01:24

Messen · 30/08/2024 00:22

Is all the evidence and are all the court transcripts in the public domain? Otherwise, why would anyone think they knew better than a nearly year- long trial with 12 jurors, a judge and teams of lawyers on each side thrashing it out?

Yep. The courts must be really missing out on forensic and legal experts from mumsnet.

PyongyangKipperbang · 30/08/2024 01:24

NoButBut · 30/08/2024 01:23

Nope it isn't.

Why?

Nc209 · 30/08/2024 01:26

NoButBut · 30/08/2024 01:20

It probably does for some people. If she was another person, some armchair judges, jury and lawyers wouldn't care to go through her case unpaid with a fine tooth comb the way they're doing with Letby, using incomplete resources, mind. Just to find something to prove her supposed innocence. They'd be doing the opposite.

Maybe a small minority, but there's a huge amount of people obsessed with true crime etc (I'm not one of them) and they love to dissect evidence for any high profile case.

And it just so happens that the evidence in this case made a lot of people think 'what? Is that it?".

NoButBut · 30/08/2024 01:27

PyongyangKipperbang · 30/08/2024 01:24

But there is a hell of a lot more than a "grain of doubt" in this case, a whole bucketful of doubt would be more appropriate.

So she shouldn't be on the death penalty (if it were given for murder) but that doesn't mean she can't be convicted and sent to prison.

PyongyangKipperbang · 30/08/2024 01:28

NoButBut · 30/08/2024 01:24

Yep. The courts must be really missing out on forensic and legal experts from mumsnet.

There are now a hell of a lot of specialists who werent aware of all the details of the trial and have since read the transcripts, who are very concerned about her conviction. The evidence, to them, simply doesnt stack up. As I said above, sounds like her defence team let her down when they didnt/couldnt call a single neonatologist to rebutt the claims made by the (long retired) specialists the prosecution called.

NoButBut · 30/08/2024 01:31

Nc209 · 30/08/2024 01:26

Maybe a small minority, but there's a huge amount of people obsessed with true crime etc (I'm not one of them) and they love to dissect evidence for any high profile case.

And it just so happens that the evidence in this case made a lot of people think 'what? Is that it?".

But they don't have anywhere near all the evidence the courts have, otherwise this would be left for the laymen of mumsnet to try and convict/acquit. Any other person or crime and the phrase "trial by social media" would be flying all over the place. This is too serious for mumsnet Lucy Letby defence team, lawyers and investigators or social media trials to be taken seriously.

PyongyangKipperbang · 30/08/2024 01:32

NoButBut · 30/08/2024 01:27

So she shouldn't be on the death penalty (if it were given for murder) but that doesn't mean she can't be convicted and sent to prison.

But the question is, should she have been convicted in the first place when there has never been any proof of murders being committed at all? Surely in order to convict a person of murder there must be "beyond reasonable doubt" that a murder took place, such as in convictions where bodies have never been recovered.

There has been no such evidence in this case.

Nc209 · 30/08/2024 01:36

Messen · 30/08/2024 00:22

Is all the evidence and are all the court transcripts in the public domain? Otherwise, why would anyone think they knew better than a nearly year- long trial with 12 jurors, a judge and teams of lawyers on each side thrashing it out?

There's enough of it in the public domain for people to make a pretty accurate assessment of what people think of the evidence.

The Chester standard posted live updates almost daily, no they weren't printing every single word but I think it's very safe to assume that they didn't leave out any important bits.

needtonamechangeforthis1 · 30/08/2024 01:46

I've said from the very start that I didn't think the evidence was sufficient to prove her guilt. I've been shouted down so many times that this thread is quite a refreshing read.

I'm not convinced any of those poor babies were murdered.
Those poor families.

Nc209 · 30/08/2024 01:47

NoButBut · 30/08/2024 01:31

But they don't have anywhere near all the evidence the courts have, otherwise this would be left for the laymen of mumsnet to try and convict/acquit. Any other person or crime and the phrase "trial by social media" would be flying all over the place. This is too serious for mumsnet Lucy Letby defence team, lawyers and investigators or social media trials to be taken seriously.

They do. There's no important evidence pointing to her guilt that hasn't made it to the public domain.

I mean you can play down what's happening if you like and try to make out that there's just a silly little MN campaign to free her, but yet in the news everyday there are more and more experts and high profile people putting their names to the articles expressing their concerns.

For some reason you want to tell yourself that it's just because of who she instead of ever stopping to consider that maybe, if so many people are expressing doubts that there might be something to it.

OldCrocks · 30/08/2024 01:48

If people are having trouble accessing the original New Yorker article, it's reproduced in full on this blog:

Special Edition: The Lucy Letby New Yorker Article

The NHS laid the blame at the feet of an enthusiastic nurse. Who is going to fix it?

https://londonletter.substack.com/p/special-edition-the-lucy-letby-new

Sooverwork · 30/08/2024 01:51

mnahmnah · 29/08/2024 22:58

I have wondered this myself. It was the early pregnancy unit. She really didn’t seem like she wanted to be there, I know that much. But I assumed that those areas are interlinked, same building, they may rotate to get experience?

But we are sure it was her. I had already been thinking so when we saw it in the news when it first happened. Then when DH saw it, he said so too, without me having mentioned it.

My DC were born either side of her time there. I have friends whose DC were in the NICU at the time these babies were killed. Nobody wants this dragging on in the media like this.

I’m very sorry for your miscarriage. It would be impossible for a nurse to perform a US scan in the NHS. This is the domain of Sonographers. I know this because a number of my friendship group are in this field.

Frogpole · 30/08/2024 01:54

WARNING This comment contains about four million words more than I intended. Also my thumbs have seized up and I think my phone might be on fire...

This is something I've taken a bit of interest in, or rather my DW's taken an interest in and I'm following along with. Here's what I've read from various sources thus far:

The is no physical evidence whatsoever linking her to the deaths of those poor, poor babies. Not one single shred of it, no forensics, no DNA, nothing found in her possession, no "smoking gun", absolutely nothing at all.

There are zero eyeball witnesses linking her to the deaths, not one. Not even a biased or unreliable one. Of all the staff and parents who'd have been buzzing around the neonatal unit, not a single person saw her do the slightest thing wrong, suspicious, or even unusual. No one even thinks they might have seen her doing anything untoward, not a single soul that can stand up and say "It was her, she did it, I saw her do it with my own eyes!".

Another thing there's a complete absence of is CCTV doing anything in the slightest bit out of the ordinary, no photos, no phone clips, not one single frame of proof, despite the fact that we've all got Hollywood-quality video cameras in our back pockets, and with security being such a high priority in neonatal they've got cameras than Jessop's.

What there are, however, is more than a dozen cases from across the globe of nurses in uncannily similar or in some cases near identical situations to Lucy Letby. Found guilty, left languishing in prison for moths, years, even decades, only to have all charges dropped and be instantly freed. Sometimes it's a previously undiagnosed medical condition that made them act in a suspicious way when they'd done nothing wrong. Sometimes it's incompetence in the legal system. Sometimes it's because a tragedy happens, and the one nurse who seems a little bit 'different' to the rest - the 'loner', the 'quiet one', the 'odd one out' just get's blamed and everyone runs with it.

The Jury were shown fabricated, manipulated evidence and believed it to be kosher, when it was actually a document created by the prosecution in an attempt to make reality fit their theory rather than the other way round. The Jurors were shown what they were told was a list off all suspicious/unexplained deaths on that ward between x date and y date, which clearly showed LL was on duty for every single one. What they were actually shown was a cherry picked list showing only the suspicious/unexplained deaths that happened when LL was on duty, and none of the equally suspicious/unexplained deaths (of which there are many) that happened when she was nowhere near the place. If the prosecution have strong case, why jeopardise their credibility by telling demonstrable lies?

Her notes and writing (now this one is a bit of a stretch I think) they're writing off (wait a minute..) as either some sort of delusional/fantasying disorder and/or plain old "impostor syndrome". While she has written down in black and white in her own handwriting things like "I killed them I did this" and so on, there is absolutely no specific detail whatsoever, nothing that so much as hints at her having inside or intimate knowledge of the cause of these tragic events. Consider for example the difference between "Frogpole has died, and I think it might be my fault because I didn't click the 'thanks' button on enough of his posts!" and "Frogpole has died because at 0235hrs on 30/08/04 I got the 10 inch kitchen knife with the grey handle from the second drawer on the left and I stabbed the bastard right in his ego!"

Good grief, this came out way, waaaay longer than intended, sorry! There was other stuff too but I don't want to type it any more than you want to read it lol

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