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Super yacht sinking - did the crew bravely survive or did they abandon their the passengers

833 replies

mids2019 · 24/08/2024 08:15

So....most of the crew survived this tragedy but the passengers died. Do you think it will emerge the crew should have e done more to alrt the passengers and indeed put their lives in danger to attempt a rescue? Maybe it was all just too fast?

I just think there seems silence from the crew at moment despite being survivors of a sinking vessel who have a story to tell. Are lawyers advising they stay quiet on this?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
22
HazelPlayer · 25/08/2024 11:49

rosesyrup · 25/08/2024 11:35

The maker of the yacht:

“The boat sank because it took on water,” Costantino said, suggesting that proper procedures were not followed. He suggested the large opening just above the waterline on the stern, which pivots down to make a bathing platform and launching point for small boats, may have been open and become flooded, and the same might have been true for another waterline opening on the side.

Costantino said Cutfield, a 50-year-old New Zealander, “should have locked everything up. He should have gathered all passengers in the safe point. This is protocol. No one should have been in their cabin. [You should] turn on the engine, weigh [raise] anchor, [point the] bow to the wind and lower the keel. This would have added stability, safety and comfort.”

Bayesian maker says crew should have had time to rescue passengers (ft.com)

Quoting things like this gets you piled on by a poster or two who thinks the maker is covering up their flawed design and smearing the captain.

rosesyrup · 25/08/2024 11:54

HazelPlayer · 25/08/2024 11:49

Quoting things like this gets you piled on by a poster or two who thinks the maker is covering up their flawed design and smearing the captain.

He's not the only sailing person who has said this sort of thing, about standard safety procedure in such circumstances. Of course he will defend his yacht's design. It will all come out in the wash.

I've already been pecked at for trying to explain a fairly simple sentence!

SheilaFentiman · 25/08/2024 12:17

NoMoreFalafelForYou · 25/08/2024 11:10

I’m sure I read that Mike Lynch and his wife were woken from their cabin and started making their way up.

Where have you read this? AFAIK, Angela Bacares hasn’t given interviews yet. What we know from comments from a medic is that she cut her feet walking over broken glass when getting to the deck/liferaft. I think that’s all I’ve seen.

I read it in a few places, quoting an article in La Repubblica newspaper:

Mr Lynch's wife told La Repubblica that she and her husband woke up at 4am when the boat suddenly 'tilted'.
Mrs Bacares said that they were not worried at the time, but that she still got up to see what was happening, until glass shattered and created confusion on board.
She sustained abrasions on her feet - likely after walking on glass shards during the sinking - which have left her unable to walk and sitting in a wheelchair, La Repubblica reports, while she also has bandages on others part of her body.

Thanks - but that indicates Angela B went out to investigate rather than that they both started making their way up.

Namename12345562 · 25/08/2024 12:21

Anyone seen what David Davis has said about Mike Lynch?!

CorWotcha · 25/08/2024 12:24

Namename12345562 · 25/08/2024 12:21

Anyone seen what David Davis has said about Mike Lynch?!

No. what?

fedupoftheheatnow · 25/08/2024 12:25

Only seen headlines but think DD said he was going to meet Mike Lynch to discuss or investigate the Lucy Letby case

Namename12345562 · 25/08/2024 12:29

I do remember reading how Mike Lynch said he would have struggled to avoid going to prison had he not had the financial resources for a good legal team…

CorWotcha · 25/08/2024 12:40

Namename12345562 · 25/08/2024 12:29

I do remember reading how Mike Lynch said he would have struggled to avoid going to prison had he not had the financial resources for a good legal team…

Well that’s not surprising if he was up against Hewlett Packard

Bromptotoo · 25/08/2024 13:01

fedupoftheheatnow · 25/08/2024 12:25

Only seen headlines but think DD said he was going to meet Mike Lynch to discuss or investigate the Lucy Letby case

I don't think that's unreasonable. There are plenty of commentators with legal, medical and statistical experience who are not convinced she was properly/fairly convicted.

AIUI Lynch's field was Bayesean maths which is focussed on questions like probability and distribution.

I'm no fan of David Davis's Conservative and pro-leave views but his libertarianism and belief in Human Rights etc is admirable.

tsalty · 25/08/2024 13:51

@Choux negative. It is not representative of the truth at all

MidnightLibraryCard · 25/08/2024 16:09

SheilaFentiman · 25/08/2024 07:57

Those on deck were thrown into the sea and miraculously managed to board the liferaft.”

Have you seen this reported from interviews with the survivors, or are you speculating? If the latter, please caveat with “I wonder if…”

AFAIK, the only survivors definitely rescued from the water (by people already in the life raft ) are the mother and baby.

It's in the reports from survivors, like the woman who was thrown into the sea with her baby.

As has the anchor dragging which os confirmed via the location tracking system. As are the fact the boat was designed to be able to right itself from a virtually horizontal position IF all the hatches were closed and the keel was lowered to 10m as it should have been in 50m deep water with a storm forecast.

The boat has a living room etc below deck. If, for example the keel was not lowered and the boat tipped so far it took on water at deck level and the watertight doors to the living area were not closed (as they should be with a storm forecast) and water entered there then it would have made it virtually impossible for passengers in the cabins (down a further narrow staircase and corridors from that) to have exited. It would also have meant the ship could not right itself as it is designed to do. That is the only thing that is speculation on my part: what I suggested might have gone wrong, because it's quite clear some things did go very badly wrong otherwise it would not have sunk. The captain was very experienced and the boat built by a reputable yard to well-tested designs.

But the survivors (who were all on deck when the boat went down) who have released accounts of what happened (not the crew, obviously, who will have been advised not to say anything during the investigation) state they were thrown into the sea suddenly. The divers have stated the mast is in tact. The tracking shows dragging anchor for approx 15 mins before the sinking, which happened very quickly after that. The storm was forecast hours beforehand but nobody could have predicted the downburst.

Boats nearby, however, were ok because they had started their engines, ensured everyone was awake and all hatches and watertight doors were closed. With engines on they had better control of their boats, including the captain of the nearby boat who rescued the survivors. Why the Bayesian didn't start its engines during 15 mins of dragging anchor is very odd. It has huge fuel tanks, sufficient to travel thousands of miles.

In all likelihood as I said it won't be one factor, it will be a series of very unfortunate contributary factors compounding each other by happening to occur simultaneously and clearly very bad luck with a localised weather event far worse than anybody could have predicted. However, given the additional volatility of those seas in recent years with climate change and that particular area being notorious for losses at sea, with a storm forecast all precautions such as fully lowering the keel, checking hatches and ensuring passengers were on deck with lifejackets when it started should have been taken.

This ship had sailed through many storms. It crossed the atlantic multiple times. Its sister ship has been to the Antarctic. There is even footage of it tipping to an almost 90 degree angle in a storm and righting itself previously. Uncomfortable for the passengers, but necessary. It should not have sunk so something in addition to the severe weather event seems to have happened concurrently. Did the systems fail so the engine wouldn't start or the systems said hatches were secured by they were not? Or was it human error, on top of the storm? Nobody knows, hence the investigation.

Just so tragic, after what Mr Lynch had endured over the last decade, when finally he had his freedom back. And for his young daughter to die as well, separated from all of the others trapped below deck. Their final minutes must have been beyond terrifying and my thoughts are with their families and the poor survivors who doubtless have been through extreme trauma.

MidnightLibraryCard · 25/08/2024 16:11

SheilaFentiman · 25/08/2024 07:57

Those on deck were thrown into the sea and miraculously managed to board the liferaft.”

Have you seen this reported from interviews with the survivors, or are you speculating? If the latter, please caveat with “I wonder if…”

AFAIK, the only survivors definitely rescued from the water (by people already in the life raft ) are the mother and baby.

And no. The reports are that the life raft launched automatically, as it does at a certain level of submersion. Per the reports I've seen all survivors were thrown into the sea, some managed to board the raft and they then dragged others - like that mother - aboard it out of the water. Per the reports nobody exited the boat directly into the life raft because the sinking was so sudden and they had no time to launch it manually in a controlled manner.

MidnightLibraryCard · 25/08/2024 16:12

Thisoldheartofmine · 25/08/2024 08:01

@MidnightLibraryCard how is it known that the mast is intact?

The divers who recovered the bodies of those trapped on board reported it.

SheilaFentiman · 25/08/2024 16:13

“But the survivors (who were all on deck when the boat went down) who have released accounts of what happened (not the crew, obviously, who will have been advised not to say anything during the investigation) state they were thrown into the sea suddenly. ”

I included the crew in my definition of survivors and I mentioned the mother (and baby) in my post.

I haven’t seen comments from Angela B and the father of the baby about being in the sea first. But I will look for those now.

MidnightLibraryCard · 25/08/2024 16:22

Namename12345562 · 25/08/2024 12:29

I do remember reading how Mike Lynch said he would have struggled to avoid going to prison had he not had the financial resources for a good legal team…

As would anybody in a US federal case. "Not guilty" verdicts are 0.5% of cases. This is why Mike Lynch had planned to set up a charity to help those subjected to this "justice" system in the US without the financial means to fight it, having experienced it directly himself. You have taken his comment on this totally out of context: he was acknowledging that many cannot get justice there unless they have money and was planning to launch a project to help others.

MidnightLibraryCard · 25/08/2024 16:30

SheilaFentiman · 25/08/2024 16:13

“But the survivors (who were all on deck when the boat went down) who have released accounts of what happened (not the crew, obviously, who will have been advised not to say anything during the investigation) state they were thrown into the sea suddenly. ”

I included the crew in my definition of survivors and I mentioned the mother (and baby) in my post.

I haven’t seen comments from Angela B and the father of the baby about being in the sea first. But I will look for those now.

I didn't say all survivors have given a public account yet. Many including Lynch's wife have not as far as I know and nor would it be reasonable to expect her to while grieving her husband and daughter. And, from a legal perspective, as the owner of the company that owns the boat.

What I said is that those survivors who HAVE given an account publicly so far have said this.

SheilaFentiman · 25/08/2024 16:40

MidnightLibraryCard · 25/08/2024 16:30

I didn't say all survivors have given a public account yet. Many including Lynch's wife have not as far as I know and nor would it be reasonable to expect her to while grieving her husband and daughter. And, from a legal perspective, as the owner of the company that owns the boat.

What I said is that those survivors who HAVE given an account publicly so far have said this.

Not exactly.

You said:

Those on deck were thrown into the sea and miraculously managed to board the liferaft.”

In my reply, I said:

AFAIK, the only survivors definitely rescued from the water (by people already in the life raft ) are the mother and baby.

So it seems now that you are agreeing with me? That the only survivors who it has been reported were rescued from the water are the mother and baby, because the crew haven’t commented on it publicly and neither have Angela Bacares or James Emslie (all for very understandable reasons).

Thanks, I will leave it there.

MidnightLibraryCard · 25/08/2024 16:44

"That's what I think, too- and there are manslaughter charges allegedly being made- ''Culpable shipwreck'' probably over safety procedures not taken or carried through correctly."

I believe the Italian legal system works quite differently to ours and any unusual death is investigated. I am no expert but I believe this may be a translation issue: in their system "opening charges" in this context I believe means they are investigating whether such charges are warranted. Nobody has been charged, they are simply following their normal investigative procedure and setting out the possible causes.

However, the prosecutor stated in an interview yesterday that he believes charges in this case are "likely" which indicates they must have some suspicion that human error was at least a contributory factor. But that the wreck must be raised before the investigation can be concluded. Nobody will know for certain what happened until the investigations are completed.

BettyBardMacDonald · 25/08/2024 16:46

Thank you for the analysis, @MidnightLibraryCard

I'm unclear on what dragging anchor means. Is it good or bad? Does it mean the anchor isn't gripping the seabed sufficiently to hold the boat in place?

MidnightLibraryCard · 25/08/2024 16:50

@SheilaFentiman she confirmed that the father of the child was also rescued from the water. Other survivors have given similar accounts - those who have given accounts so far, as I said. Many have not, understandably, as they are likely too traumatised or have been advised not to for legal reasons or simply do not want to.

I'm not sure why you are being so argumentative. I simply stated that of the accounts given publicly so far, survivors have stated the life raft launched automatically and they were all plunged into the sea. They then managed to board the rafz/ help each other aboard it, then let off a flare and the captain of the nearby boat came to rescue those aboard the life raft.

Heartbreakingly, Lynch's wife asked him to stay out at sea with them a little longer, still hoping to find her husband and daughter.

1dayatatime · 25/08/2024 17:16

@BettyBardMacDonald

"I'm unclear on what dragging anchor means. Is it good or bad? Does it mean the anchor isn't gripping the seabed sufficiently to hold the boat in place?"

Correct- the wind and waves were blowing the yacht so hard that the anchor (or more accurately the amount of chain laid out) was insufficient to keep the yacht in place.

Interestingly the nearby yacht Sir Robert Baden Powell also dragged its anchor according to the tracking data on the same direction and same distance.

So I don't think they did anything wrong in the anchoring it was just exceptional unexpected weather.

masterblaster · 25/08/2024 17:38

BabaYetu · 24/08/2024 08:25

I think the working crew are as entitled to try save themselves as the wealthy passengers.

It’s their job to evacuate everyone safely.

Namename12345562 · 25/08/2024 17:41

MidnightLibraryCard · 25/08/2024 16:22

As would anybody in a US federal case. "Not guilty" verdicts are 0.5% of cases. This is why Mike Lynch had planned to set up a charity to help those subjected to this "justice" system in the US without the financial means to fight it, having experienced it directly himself. You have taken his comment on this totally out of context: he was acknowledging that many cannot get justice there unless they have money and was planning to launch a project to help others.

That is what I was referring to… Had he not been so wealthy he would have ended up in prison? Which must happen to a number of people I assume? It’s a shame that having money can make having justice possible 🤷🏻‍♀️

PrincessofWells · 25/08/2024 17:41

iwishihadknownmore · 25/08/2024 07:49

How do you reposition into the wind during a Tornado??? & do we even know there were any warnings such as the anchor dragging etc etc? all conjecture.

As one sailing expert said, given the storm warnings, the boat should have been tied up alongside as it had so many inexperienced passengers on board.

But this is all with the benefit of hindsight, i doubt anyone on board expected to be hit by such a storm/tornado, it maybe they did everything correctly but the weather was just too powerful for the boat design.

We'll find out soon enough.

We know the anchor was dragging because it's shown on marine traffic and ais.

Yachts do not go into a marina in bad weather, for a start there probably isn't a marina nearby with a sufficiently sized berth. They were anchoring off which is the correct thing to do. The keel should have been down providing there was sufficient water and the engine should have been on as they were dragging.

The crew survived because they were on or near the deck.

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