Super yacht sinking - did the crew bravely survive or did they abandon their the passengers

[mids2019]

So....most of the crew survived this tragedy but the passengers died. Do you think it will emerge the crew should have e done more to alrt the passengers and indeed put their lives in danger to attempt a rescue? Maybe it was all just too fast?

I just think there seems silence from the crew at moment despite being survivors of a sinking vessel who have a story to tell. Are lawyers advising they stay quiet on this?

Sorry, misread. No-one was getting out of that submersible and it was not safe to go down in it, either. The hull was not strong enough for the pressure. Owner/builder was an arrogant fool, afaik.

Well, if you are a man I'd expect you to let me get in the boat first. Men have more muscular and stronger upper chest and arm muscles so are more likely to survive in the water and be able to swim - women not so much.

Exactly — the prosecutor said “it would be fundamental to understand why nine of ten crew survivors yet six of the 12 passengers perished”. “I have asked about how they warned passengers,” he said.

The owner of a private aircraft cannot overrule the pilot on matters of safety, even if the pilot is their employee. One would assume the same could be said of the captain of a privately owned vessel.

The crew and captain had all the latest systems available to tell them they should not have been there. There was plenty warning of the storm and they should never have stayed where they were, regardless of whether a waterspout hit them.

It's a 'ship' and it should have had a competent / qualified person(s) on watch 24x7 for safety and security, looking out for potential dangers, and reporting to the master (captain) who is ultimately responsible.
At the first hint of trouble, action should have been taken to secure the vessel, and that should have included watching the weather and awareness of risks (open windows/doors).
That boat should never have sunk if the risks were managed properly - the master will most likely be charged with the deaths and lose his ability to command.

Wrong thread!

The crew on deck working, the passengers in bed sleeping. I doubt it’s any more complicated than that.

Yes I don't know any yacht captain who wouldn't be prepared to overrule the owner, and most I know would walk out of a job if there was any sniff of an expectation that they didn't have the ability to overrule on matters of safety or compliance with the law.

(I imagine some do exist, but certainly the professional approach would be to be absolutely prepared to overrule an owner when needed)

Yes there was a weather warning of the storm but not of the intensity that occurred.

Where exactly do you suggest that the yacht should have been? Even assuming there was a berth available it was too big to have moored up in the nearby harbour.

The safest place would have been where it was.

Look it was a freak storm with probably some human errors (but given the benefit of hindsight).

I didn't do proper life boat training but my understanding is that you are taught to get in the lifeboat first and then haul others in. I imagine it is more possible that way than when both are in the water

@Madrigal12

"It's a 'ship' and it should have had a competent / qualified person(s) on watch 24x7 for safety and security, looking out for potential dangers, and reporting to the master (captain) who is ultimately responsible."

I can't imagine that they didn't have any one on anchor watch. It's standard procedure for much smaller yachts let alone 55 m ones with 22 people on board.

And bear in mind, only the stewards aren't necessarily strong or remotely experienced in the sailing side of things

I expect the issue may have been who was on anchor watch/their level of knowledge and training. I certainly remember doing it when fairly new to yachting (but that was in very calm conditions)

Although usually skippers are light sleepers and up the moment things sound at all strange

Boris Johnson disagreed and suggested that they were pushing forward the bounds of human endeavour.

All engineers "uh, we already know how to calculate crush depth, we didn't need a human-crewed demonstration".

So much misinformation here. The Italians have opened a normal enquiry.
The crew are far more likely to have been awake and aware of what was happening than the quests. Plus, the guests were possibly more relaxed after dinner and less aware than the crew ; we don’t know. The boat shouldn’t have been able to sink if just the hatches were left open, it would take more inundation and the boat would have righted itself even under “normally” extreme conditions. Those of us who sail have deep respect for the sea and know that absolutely nothing can be expected or predicted.

We were always taught it was safest to step up into the life raft...

Of course too early to lay blane but the keel was never deployed, meaning it capsized super easily. Should have been standard practice. Reckon a lot of faults will coms out but at the mo all have keep quiet during the investigation

@Bromptotoo

"I don't think that's unreasonable. There are plenty of commentators with legal, medical and statistical experience who are not convinced she was properly/fairly convicted.

AIUI Lynch's field was Bayesean maths which is focussed on questions like probability and distribution.

I'm no fan of David Davis's Conservative and pro-leave views but his libertarianism and belief in Human Rights etc is admirable."

Agreed, it would've been interesting to see what he thought of the Lucy Letby case

"Thanks - but that indicates Angela B went out to investigate rather than that they both started making their way up."

Passengers were not found in the expected cabins, where they were sleeping. Hannah Lynch was alone and all of the other five were in the same cabin, on the side of the boat that is believed to have been closest to the surface as it sank so likely in the remaining air pockets, trying to survive. All were dressed in their pyjamas, the divers said.

This is conjecture but it seems based on what is known to date possible that Mike Lynch was attempting to rouse the other passengers below deck and get them out while his wife went up to find out what was happening. But those who perished certainly were not asleep, given the locations of the bodies.

Imagine being woken to the sea pouring in on your with great force, furniture and everything else flying all over the place. Confused, in shock, no idea where is up or down as the boat turns. Utterly terrifying.

It's all so devastatingly sad and will haunted all who were present and their families, whatever cause is eventually established.

The crew that survived were on deck or near the top, the chef was also crew and died as the kitchen is well below deck. This kind of speculation and blame game doesn't help anyone, this is a freak accident that no one really had any time to think about before the boat sank.

Imagine being woken to the sea pouring in on your with great force, furniture and everything else flying all over the place. Confused, in shock, no idea where is up or down as the boat turns. Utterly terrifying.

It is in pitch darkness as well. It does not bear thinking about.

I feel haunted for the victims, survivors and their families.

It's more nuanced than that. Nobody could have anticipated the severity of the weather conditions. But they knew for many hours a storm was coming. Standard protocols that other boats in the vicinity followed (to ensure all hatches were closed, keel fully down if retractible, have engines on for more control and manouevre into the wind, and fundamentally to have all abroad above deck and wearing life jackets) meant they were fine. Given this ship's design and where it has sailed before it is hard to see how it could have sunk if such procedures were followed properly it doesn't appear that they were.

Therefore - like almost all disasters - sadly this seems to have been caused by an unfortunate confluence of simultaneous mistakes and improbable misfortune. Particularly poignant and cruel given that Mike Lynch's PHD and the fundamental idea behind the software made by Autonomy was Bayesian statistics, hence the boat's name.

I've read a few times that there were 16 minutes from when the yacht was struck to it capsizing. The captain said he was shocked by the weather, that he wasn't expecting it, but other sailors in the area have said that they were all aware that 'atrocious' weather was on its way, which had already sunk another boat. They shouldn't have had hatches open, hot or not it's not safe. And they should have been in the harbour where it's safer. We'll no doubt find out in due course what caused this tragedy.