Super yacht sinking - did the crew bravely survive or did they abandon their the passengers

[mids2019]

So....most of the crew survived this tragedy but the passengers died. Do you think it will emerge the crew should have e done more to alrt the passengers and indeed put their lives in danger to attempt a rescue? Maybe it was all just too fast?

I just think there seems silence from the crew at moment despite being survivors of a sinking vessel who have a story to tell. Are lawyers advising they stay quiet on this?

Those boats have powerful engines and bow thrusters so you can usually have a degree of control that way, that's what the boat next to then was doing remember

@MidnightLibraryCard how is it known that the mast is intact?

I’m sure I read that Mike Lynch and his wife were woken from their cabin and started making their way up.

Where have you read this? AFAIK, Angela Bacares hasn’t given interviews yet. What we know from comments from a medic is that she cut her feet walking over broken glass when getting to the deck/liferaft. I think that’s all I’ve seen.

i doubt anyone on board expected to be hit by such a storm/tornado, it maybe they did everything correctly but the weather was just too powerful for the boat design.

Morning, posting a link which contains a reasonably straightforward plain language description of a microburst..which may or may not turn out to have been a factor...C&P of a portion of the text:

"A microburst is a small concentrated downburst that produces an outward burst of strong winds at or near the surface. Microbursts are small — less than 4 km across — and short-lived, lasting only five to 10 minutes, with maximum windspeeds sometimes exceeding 100 mph"

https://www.nssl.noaa.gov/education/svrwx101/wind/types/
:

For heavens sake they were NOT poorly paid. They do work long hours but the reason they do it is that they are well paid.

Plenty of people earn $3 to 6k per month (£2k to 4k pm) for a basic 40hr week, these crew would be available to work 24/7 and as seen, at great risk.

Their hourly rate would be poor and in comparison to the owners, a pittance.

Anyway, what the crew were paid is irrelevant, they almost certainly had no time to rescue anyone.

We do not know if the boat nearby - 100s of meters away (it wasn't "next to them") was hit directly by this tornado.

@iwishihadknownmore I don't know of any entry level jobs that don't require any or minimal experience/education that pay £36 -60k a year in the uk for a standard 40 hour work week. These were the lowest paid crew members. The captain was easily making six figures. These jobs are highly sought after for a reason. I agree their pay and the wealth of those that died is completely irrelevant but am annoyed by the crew being made out to be very poorly paid.

“We do not know if the boat nearby - 100s of meters away (it wasn't "next to them") was hit directly by this tornado.”

Just going to mention/point out/be picky, sorry, that a microburst/downburst (which the investigators have specifically mentioned as one of many possibility) is not the same phenomenon at all as a tornado..

However what they do have in common is that both can cause significant changes in wind velocity (i.e. both in wind speed and direction) over very very short distances, so it is indeed possible that other yachts in the area (?the Baden-Powell) may have experienced slightly more benign conditions than those experienced by the Bayesian.

I don't think many people in the UK understand just how ferocious a tornado is and how quickly they appear from the sky with very little warning. None of the crew had likely ever experienced a waterspout/tornado before. It's not a likely scenario to encounter in the Med although the weather is getting more and more violent as the sea temp rises. I've seen those who sail the Med be very complacent because it feels like one big lake rather than open ocean. That boat had made several cross Atlantic sailings so it wasn't unseaworthy. It was likely a very uncommon weather scenario mixed with human mistakes.

I think the investigators should interview Poseidon god of the sea , because he had alone the means to create such a storm and maybe was financially involved somehow.

FFS enough of the tin foil hat wearing conspiracy nonsense- it was a tragic accident caused by a freak storm with some possible human errors (with the benefit of hindsight).

Boats drag their anchors all the time in heavy winds. It depends upon the type of ground, difficult to get dug in if its weedy or rocky. There are lots of ways to measure if you're dragging. I am speculating now, but there would be an anchor alarm in the bridge and on the captains phone. Plus another crew member or two. It's why the crew were up top.

There is a formula for how much chain to put out. 4x the length of the boat is normally safe, but more in a heavy sea.

There was another smaller yacht, the Sir Robert Baden, roughly a hundred and fifty metres away - the captain closed the hatches, started engines, and pointed into wind. From what I've read, it does seem the Bayesian did none of these things. (The smaller yacht then came by to attempt to provide assistance.)

It was a freakish weather event - but I do think mistakes were made, some of them at this point quite inexplicable, and basic safety measures not taken.

I understood there was video footage of a Waterspout/tornado in the bay where the yacht sank?

Perhaps i'm wrong on that.

I'm not sure I agree about the sailors in the Med being complacent. Storms can be extremely ferocious and weather forecasting is not particularly accurate in a lot of it and skippers are well aware of that. Getting caught in storms is part of sailing and increases your sailing skills.

No idea but according to quite a few reports in the MSM (and yes, I know) the lead investigator is leaning towards microburst/downdraft as one possibility, and not so much towards tornadoes..

“Italian authorities say a downburst was the most likely cause of the sinking of the Bayesian superyacht which led to the deaths of seven people.
Initially it was thought that a waterspout - essentially a tornado over the sea - was responsible for the incident.
But at a news conference on Saturday, officials said it was more likely that it was caused by a downburst - a localised gusty wind associated with thunderstorms.”

(from the BBC, link at foot of page)

TBH at ground level at night it might be hard to tell the difference…OTOH in the aftermath looking at physical damage around the locality and also possibly looking at any recordings of any weather radar images and other Met data for the area might give a more of a clue.

www.bbc.com/news/articles/c87g413d2n5o

@Qanat53 i have never come across a boat that paid cash, nor a crew member paid in cash in my many years in the industry. Cash is as heavily regulated as safety

@Qanat53 i should add, even tips are paid through payroll. No cash changes hands at all

So it's not like Below Deck Med then? Those TV fakers!

That's what I think, too- and there are manslaughter charges allegedly being made- ''Culpable shipwreck'' probably over safety procedures not taken or carried through correctly.

https://www.thetimes.com/uk/society/article/bayesian-yacht-sinking-latest-sicily-mike-lynch-znwf5wfwc

Being considered, @oakleaffy - not being made.

That's what I think, too- and there are manslaughter charges allegedly being made- ''Culpable shipwreck'' probably over safety procedures not taken or carried through correctly.

Might be worth bearing in mind of course that in some legal systems (including some in Europe) if there is loss of life in an accident somebody almost automatically gets clobbered with some form of homicide, manslaughter or equivalent charge right at the get go (almost a case of guilty until provided innocent).

Then you get the full investigation, and then a decision is made as to whether or not the charges will be pursued…the Senna F1 accident was one such example.

I’m sure I read that Mike Lynch and his wife were woken from their cabin and started making their way up.

Where have you read this? AFAIK, Angela Bacares hasn’t given interviews yet. What we know from comments from a medic is that she cut her feet walking over broken glass when getting to the deck/liferaft. I think that’s all I’ve seen.

I read it in a few places, quoting an article in La Repubblica newspaper:

Mr Lynch's wife told La Repubblica that she and her husband woke up at 4am when the boat suddenly 'tilted'.
Mrs Bacares said that they were not worried at the time, but that she still got up to see what was happening, until glass shattered and created confusion on board.
She sustained abrasions on her feet - likely after walking on glass shards during the sinking - which have left her unable to walk and sitting in a wheelchair, La Repubblica reports, while she also has bandages on others part of her body.

I'm not sure how accurate they are but commentators on yachting etc channels are saying the yacht sank at the stern first, then onto it's side.

That suggests hatches at the rear may not have been closed properly.

These are not, as many posters on here have assumed, roof window type hatches for air; they are large hatches for areas of storage for items you might float or drive off the yacht etc. There might also be one for access to lower levels.
They apparently have sealed doors/openings inside but commentators say it's very common for the requirement to seal then to be overridden for convenience.

There is also talk of how the keel should probably have been fully down to counteract wind etc. from the side, but that it seems it was not (due to that not being standard when the yacht was not sailing, and due to them perhaps wanting to minimise the snap back rocking/rolling effect of the yacht in a storm).

Even with the rolling it would have been doing, if the hatches weren't sealed/closed, water could have gotten in any of the three (I think) at the rear.

There is also an issue raised re. the main doors which apparently have the fault of opening when the yacht heels relatively steeply. This is apparently common on these type of doors. They can be fixed closed (dogged) but it seems like that wasn't done. (And unsurprisingly since people were coming and going etc). That would only have hampered escape if anyone was in that space anyway.

This is probably going to be a case of human error, a small amount of yacht design (especially if the manufacturer's operating instructions didn't specify to lower the keel in severe conditions, even at anchor) and severe/freak weather. But it's all still speculation.

The maker of the yacht:

“The boat sank because it took on water,” Costantino said, suggesting that proper procedures were not followed. He suggested the large opening just above the waterline on the stern, which pivots down to make a bathing platform and launching point for small boats, may have been open and become flooded, and the same might have been true for another waterline opening on the side.

Costantino said Cutfield, a 50-year-old New Zealander, “should have locked everything up. He should have gathered all passengers in the safe point. This is protocol. No one should have been in their cabin. [You should] turn on the engine, weigh [raise] anchor, [point the] bow to the wind and lower the keel. This would have added stability, safety and comfort.”

Bayesian maker says crew should have had time to rescue passengers (ft.com)