How can a REALLY low percentage still be a "pass" at A level?

[Birmingbacon]

I was looking at the grade boundaries for A levels after noticing schools saying things like "97% of our A-levels were a pass" (which sounds great on paper)

But if an E is a pass then the percentage which gets you a pass is shockingly low.

Here are a few:

full list here if interested
https://qualifications.pearson.com/content/dam/pdf/Support/Grade-boundaries/A-level/grade-boundaries-june-2024-gce.pdf

Pass (E grade) in A level Maths - 18%
Pass (E grade) in A level English Lang - 25%
Pass (E grade) in A level Biology - 23%
Pass (E grade) in A level Business - 29%

etc etc, all similar.

Am I crazy or should you need at least 50% in order to 'pass' an exam? Even to get a C in maths you only need 43% it just seems a very low bar

So if everyone got 85% or higher, then what? Everyone gets a A+? Or do they then. Go hmmm, something's up, we'll change the boundaries?

But surely, with something like ... Russian history, there's only so many questions you can ask. So, the questions are going to be inherently similar I er 6-8 years, so they can only mark on a fact'a and gen the pupils ability to discuss the finer points etc. it's subjective. If loads of kids have convincing arguments, they are going to do well. I should hazard a guess that the boundaries are higher and less variable than something like maths, a purely objective subject. So, with multiple papers, you have e more material to practice with, so they try to make it not easy. But they can make mistakes. Also, you might have a generally bright cohort or whatever.

It's not that easy to make a quiz the same difficulty.

Try and write a 5 question quiz on ... Ghosts UK tv series, then make another exactly the same difficulty, without using any repeated questions. So that's 2 papers for this year's Ghosts UK GCSE.

OK, it's a year later, now you need to make another set of 5 question quizzes, please make sure they're the same difficulty as the ones you set a year ago, now that teachers and students have had another year to deliver, interpret the source material and have also studied all your past questions in detail.
You'll probably find it's really hard to do! (And that's just a flippant example obviously, but you get the idea)

@TheCompactPussycat argh...maybe you're right. It was a long time ago!
But I did not know you could pass A levels with under 20 fucking percent?! That seems batshit. Why would any uni accept it?
It seems like a bit of a racket really?!

Because A-levels aren't supposed to be pass/fail, they are supposed to grade your ability on the A-level content.

If someone gets an A*, then it's pretty obvious that they are really good at the A-level content. If they get an E, then you know they've stuck with the course and are able to do some of it.

If a course is pass/fail, how would you distinguish the ones who are really good from the ones who are competent, from the ones who are less competent but still made it through the course?

Well that's why there are different grades - so everyone is aware of how well the student performed in the exam. It's not a driving test - the concept of pass/fail isn't really a thing. You get graded depending how many marks you achieved and if it is too low then you are simply ungraded (U).

Why would a university accept someone with an E grade? Very few will outright, but perhaps because the E grade is in a subject that has no relevance to the intended subject of study. Or, much more likely, because what they have actually done is accept the student on to a course with a foundation year (i.e. a year designed to get them up to the level required to progress on to the first year of a degree).

And because we've largely scrapped AS levels, a student who gets an E at A-level probably got a reasonable percentage on the AS level content questions and no one would be so snobby about a C at AS, but that route is no longer an option to them.

I would be interested to know how many of the people talking about pass / fail and getting questions right are scientists / mathematicians! Certainly in essay subjects those kind of distinctions are just not that relevant. In a history A level or history degree for example, it's absolutely not a question of getting the answers to the questions right, but about how well you can argue your point (and of course, how well you know the course content and wider context). It's very hard to get super high percentages in that kind of assessment.

Why would they accept the E grade?

Money

@LlamaNoDrama tuition fee is not enough to cover uni costs. And most unis kick students out if they fail first year so not really effective accepting E grade student if they don’t think they will pass. Many universities offer foundation years which seem to help a number of students be course ready

Maths and science papers, at all levels, give you marks for your working out on questions that require calculations even if you end up with the incorrect answer or don't finish the question.

I actually remember one assignment at uni where I got a higher mark than someone who finished the assignment simply because I showed all my working out and he didn't. The course was examined and had no course work so it made sense to mark the assignments the same way as the exam.

@llamajohn No, not money. There's no financial benefit in accepting students straight on to a degree course if they are going to flunk the first year and drop out. They will accept them under the circumstances I explained but those aren't red-top ckick-baity enough reasons for some people who want to assume everything is about profit.

It’s bullshit - they should all be a bad fail.

@Farting Why should all be a bad fail?

Passing or failing an A level isn't actually a thing. I and several other people have explained this. Just as passing or failing a GCSE isn't a thing either. It's just a grade that explains how well you did in that particular exam compared to everyone else who sat that particular exam.

Yet this Summer's A level history is showing A* at over 85% and A at over 77.5% on average so that kind of shows you can get "super high" percentages on those kinds of subjects.

That was always the case. But then 70% was a first back in the day. I don't recall anyone ever getting more than 74% ever.

If you don’t know 70% of a subject, you’ve failed to grasp it. Calling it a pass is / as I’ve said / bullshit.

Unfortunately in the post Blair 50% should go to uni era then even students with Es are indeed going to uni and then you see parents on social media complaining when they don't pass first or subsequent years.

If you have received an E grade at A level, everyone knows that is a very low grade. What would be the benefit in saying that that student has failed? Who would it benefit?

Universities? - It's not going to make any difference to university admissions since they already make judgements on potential students suitability. They can work out a student's competence based on grades without needing to have it labelled pass or fail.

Employers? - Are employers are too dumb to be able to work out that an E grade is a very low grade so need it spelled out in more simple terms? I don't think so.

The whole point of grades is to measure the degree of competence. It's not necessary to label it a pass or a fail.

I was really meaning 95%+ when I said "super high" but I take your point! I was partly responding to the PP who said that they had often seen marks well into the 90s on university papers.

But how can you "know" a subject like literature or history? All of it??

Even before the Blair era you could get on university courses with Ds and Es especially if you did mainly science A levels.

I didn't apply to any courses that you could get on with DDDs or lower as I knew I could on them through clearing. I then ended up house sharing and living next door to people who got those grades in their A levels who were doing engineering and other STEM degrees. Three of them got firsts and one of them was doing a PhD.

The student will benefit from confronting a situation where the reality is they’re no damn good at the subject in hand. They’re a failure at that subject.

They should go off and do something else they are good at.

half the mental health crap we’ve got is because people aren’t confronting the stark realities of life and thinking they’re entitles to “pass” everything. They’re not.

Plus, it’s an insult to the people who do actually pass to refer to someone who frankly doesn’t have a clue in the same manner they are referred to.

But they aren't referred to in the same manner. They are differentiated by grade.

TBH I think the student will be well aware that an E is not a good grade. They will know that they have failed to get enough marks for a D or a C or whatever. They will almost certainly have failed to get a place at uni unless they are doing a foundation year. They will already be confronting that reality.

You're wrong about your 'mental health crap' idea. As people have pointed out numerous times, an E has been an A Level pass for decades.

I think if you're feeling insulted because you passed with a grade A* and someone else passed with a grade E, you've got massive problems with self-confidence and an inferiority complex and would do well to look into mental health support.