Milk allergy death- should the book be thrown at the staff involved?

[mids2019]

....or if you are minimum wage staff member working in a stressed environment without English as a first language there should be leniency. Doctors are paid for life and death decisions but are Costa staff?

Costa chocolate powder doesn’t contain dairy.

A lot of misinformation in this thread.

Costa pay well above minimum wage. For a 16yr old, mim wage is £6.40, Costa training wage starts at £10.70. It reflects the rigorous recruitment process and the amount of training they have do. Huge amount of online and in store training.

The other thing worth pointing out is that this order was placed by Drive Thru. Not always easy to hear correctly over the microphone in a busy work environment. We don't know for sure what was said but yes, if allergies were mentioned, they should have offered up the allergy book. But....that would have meant they couldn't serve via Drive Thru and would've had to cancel the order, park up, come into store to physically look at all the info and place the order face to face. If they had ordered from Costa before, they would've known this, or perhaps the mum had looked at the book previously. Who knows? I do know that nine times out of ten when the the staff get the allergy book out, the customer declines to read it.

Yet every time you hop in a car you are taking a risk about who is behind the wheel of all the other cars on the road

According to the staff members statement.

'The mother said, 'I want two hot chocolates - one small one medium… Can you wash the [milk] jug because my daughter has a dairy allergy'.

And then the staff member said
'You are asking me to wash the jug but the hot chocolate is made with milk, but you say she has an allergy to milk'.

and then the mother said
'That's fine, just wash the jug'.

The staff member also said they have four non-dairy milks
They must ask for it and we will give it'.
'She never asked for non-dairy [milk], she just asked me to wash the jug'.

Coughing up phlegm from the reaction, or the dental treatment just received? Or spitting out saliva? How much had she drank I wonder? Why was she running to the toilet to spit if her reactions are normally mild?

Because coughing up phlegm is not trivial it indicates airways are being affected.

Costa pay well above minimum wage. For a 16yr old, mim wage is £6.40, Costa training wage starts at £10.70. It reflects the rigorous recruitment process and the amount of training they have do. Huge amount of online and in store training.

Do you know what it pays adults? I found this from earlier in 2024 suggesting it's £12 to £12.83 outside London depending on level of training completed.

https://costanewsroom.vuelio.co.uk/press/press-releases/bb23da27-df5f-4e2e-937a-4cffdc8f5b18/costa-coffee-boosts-its-baristas-with-on-average-9-increase-in-team-member-pay

That's more than minimum wage, but it's also not a lot. It's well below median wage, for example. To that end, it's a bit naive thinking Costa would be able to assure themselves of sufficient staff who are suitable for the roles and are also fluent in English, or even native speakers as at least one person on this thread wants.

Exactly. Because Costa will be making big profits so they could easily pay their staff more

Not the same at all.

The mother said she asked for soya milk.
If this is what the batista genuinely heard, then wouldn't anyone with half a brain cell get more clarification? "did you mean you want the hot chocolate made with cow's milk, or an alternative milk because of the allergy?" would have stopped all of this from happening. Continuing to wash the jug when she knew of the allergy but not getting further clarification on the milk is so baffling.

Oh it absolutely is. Far more children die in cars /as pedestrians, but noone judges parents for taking those risks.

Personally I wouldn't take my milk allergic child to a coffee shop. But personally I also am far more cautious than most parents about road safety and water safety. I lost count of the toddlers at the local paddling pool who were playing unsupervised in waist deep water because their parents were too busy scrolling on their phones

Noone likes to talk about the risks of road travel because to stop taking those risks would mean missing out on so much.

@clarrylove Where did you see that it was a drive thru? I don't think it was

I can't understand why she would be in a Costa if allergic but putting that to one side, I can't understand if your daughter is allergic you would be:

happy to order via drive through and we all know how bad that can be for hearing.
Not super check that the order is correct - I have a super fussy kid and always make the server repeat back to me no onions etc and say it a few times so it is clear the hamburger must come without onions
Not check the drink was made correctly when it came - I don't leave a McDs for example until I check the order is correct for my daughter.

I can't get over the fact that from both parties accounts there did seem to be a questioning/confusion of the order and the mother didn't spell it out and get the server to confirm it was a SOY milk drink. I don't think jusy asking and assuming they heard her is enough. And even then checking it to make sure it is correct. When I get my kid a babycino I drink it first to make sure it is not too hot. Not a chance in hell I would be offering something to my daughter who was allergic without checking it first, especially made in a busy shop where the thing she is allergic to is used in 90% of the orders.

I don't think she had received a dental treatment at that point. That was her first sip apparently so presumably they were early for the appointment.

She shouted "that was not soya milk" and ran to the bathroom, I'm not sure if she was coughing up phlegm in the bathroom at that point or later when they were leaving the dentist.

She thought she did get clarification- she told the mother there is milk in the hot chocolate and the mother said it was fine.

Clearly there has been a miscommunication with tragic results.

A milk free product made in a factory making other stuff will say on the label may contain traces . Some milk free products are made in free from factory’s . The hot chocolate powder was milk free and if soya milk was used it would have been safe ish . The error was adding dairy milk when the mother asked for soya . Not all people buying soya are allergic, some are vegan and some it’s just a choice. Some cafes are excellent at asking questions if a plant milk is chosen . As a customer making sure it has been made with chosen milk and not going on trust is part of it . Having a mouthful of dairy milk is what caused it not the chocolate part. If she had coffee she would have still reacted. Navigating life with allergies is fraught with challenges, the mother was doing a loving act and tried her best . Children want to be treated normally and go in places like costa . It was human error but strict training on allergies need to be followed.

It isn't because no one is being paid to deliver a service.

I will not work for minimum pay where a chance moment of putting the wrong milk in the wrong cup by a parent who expects me to carry 100% of the accountability for the known risk they have chosen to make can destroy my entire life.

Yes we all take risks every day. There sre normally expected risks (getting on a flight) and extraordinary risks that a person hasn't necessarily signed up to.

But you’d expect a school dinner hall to feed your child safely.

If coffee shops are selling dairy free which obviously will be chosen by people with an allergy they have to make their safeguarding watertight. You’d expect it everywhere else.

Yeah- I can’t have milk and drive through is a pain. I always triple check and say “this is soya milk?” when they give it to me- even then it’s been dairy when I’ve tasted it.

Can't find it now but I'm sure I also read that the mother said that she wasn't offered an epipen at the dentist either, and that she was shaking her head when the dentist gave evidence so maybe the mother is remembering a lot of it incorrectly?

Well yes you would think that they would get clarification, she was asked at the inquest did she not think it was strange to just wash the jug, but I believe that is one of the questions that the lawyer instructed her not to answer.

The mother also said that I feel that she did not understand what I was saying, which is why I leaned forwards so that she could hear what I was saying

So I think that she should have sought clarification also. There's obviously a huge difference between not hearing and not understanding.

Ah yes, I forgot it starting wage went up to £12 per hour recently, £13ph in London. And no age discrimination so a 16yr old gets the same as a 60yr old.

I absolutely agree. It's an accident waiting to happen. Nothing like working in a care home. It's a cafe serving food and drink that isn't harmful to the biggest percentage of the population. All cafes should put a disclaimer saying they can't guarantee their products don't contain nuts dairy and so on.

Actually I don't my kid takes a packed lunch.

My point is my kid is super fussy and I triple check everything is correct- at all stages, order and delivery of item. Surely if you (or your kid) is allergic, you do the same.

I know I am a pain and have to be the person asking for changes to the order so that's why I triple check and in some places, don't even bother. Like I am not going into the McDs in Spain or a drive through or at a Festival burger fan and trying to get no onions, because I know these are the places prime for misunderstandings. So yeah sometimes my kid 'misses out' but hey better than than we don't get what we ordered.

As I say, I take these precautions as I don't want a meltdown or meal refusal, I would be at least that cautious if my kid could have an allergic reaction (but tbh so much more cautious)

My children are driven around by nursery workers who I doubt are on much more than minimum wage. Does their shitty salary (that in no way reflects their skills, experience or responsibilities) mean it's not a big deal if they speed, crash or don't secure seatbelts properly?

A low wage doesn't absolve people from their responsibilities.

They shouldn’t be using the pass for gluten free if it’s used for gluten containing food - it’s cross contamination.

The ‘pass’ is where they place the food to be collected. If they put something gluten free in the same place as a previous order which contained gluten it would be cross contamination.