Milk allergy death- should the book be thrown at the staff involved?

[mids2019]

....or if you are minimum wage staff member working in a stressed environment without English as a first language there should be leniency. Doctors are paid for life and death decisions but are Costa staff?

I'm not entirely sure they can do that. They can't clear themselves of food poisoning responsibilities by stating the customer takes their own risks and they're not responsible for food hygiene because they can't control everything. That would be ridiculous.

Milk allergy that is fatal? This was unheard of before food and drug industry tainted the ecosystem regulating our immune systems, and vaccines which can over-sensitize the immune system and routinely carry such proteins as contaminants from cell line cultures.

I say hold the billionaire drug companies responsible for wreaking havoc on peoples immune system with outright fraud and gas lighting everyone into believing they are saviors of human health.

My IQ dropped just by reading that heap of shite

Food hygiene does not = allergens
Food establishments are still accountable to basic levels of hygiene and inspected accordingly.
Honestly at this point I’d have every customer sign a waiver saying they understand food and drink cannot be guaranteed allergen-free 🙄

That's my point. Why shouldn't they be held accountable for the food they serve being safe? That would include allergens.

A disclaimer saying they can't avoid cross contamination is fair enough in most kitchens. But to absolve themselves completely for all cases is ridiculous. They can't just serve people the completely wrong food and say oh well, you shouldn't have taken the risk. It's negligence.

I really don't want to come across as insensitive because the death of a child is something that hopefully nobody in this forum will experience, but inevitably, some will. IMO if you have a severe allergy, then you have to take personal responsibility because you simply cannot trust anyone else to do it on your behalf, because if it all goes wrong then pointing fingers isn't going to help you. I have a severe cat allergy, my kids had a friend's birthday party at a cat cafe. So they went, had a lovely time, but their clothes went straight in the (outside) bin when they were dropped back home. If you have a milk allergy, going to a milk emporium (Costa) is a bad idea. The staff mean you no harm, but (even nice) people are stupid and make mistakes, and we live live in a world where too many have imagined food intolerances that dilute the reality of genuine allergies. It's just so sad that a young life has been cut short by a series of bad decisions.

If someone is THAT ALLERGIC dairy could KILL THEM it's PRETTY STUPID to go any where NEAR a Costa coffee Where there is milk EVERYWHERE! Here's a thought- if Yr daughter has SUCH A SEVERE ALLERGY- WHY NOT MAKE A SAFE HOT CHOCOLATE AT HOME & put in a flask & take with you! Costa coffee shops are usually v busy - it can be hard enough to get a regular coffee order right, with que of folk waiting let alone such a life or death one! I blame the mother for making such a dumb desision! Not the poor low paid costa coffee staff. & WHO drinks hot chocolate in dentist office whe u r about to see a dentist?! I'm v sorry for the daughter- terrible loss. But mothers dumb desision if u know Yr child has such a severe allergy & not to epi pen. Etc. I feel very sorry for the staff - they will b traumatised for life!

Don’t judge someone unless you’ve walked a mile in their shoes.

And having your own allergies or intolerance doesn’t mean you’ve walked in their shoes. People with allergies live in wildly different circumstances. They are allergic to different things, have different tolerances, live in different environments, have different lifestyles and demands on their lives, have varying levels of medical care and advice and medicine.

It is so painful to live with these challenges daily, these fears daily, and to see others live through your worst fear. And then to see them judged for it.

”If I had a child that was allergic to dairy …” well you don’t. Do you know how many other places are dangerous for dairy allergies? Let’s try schools for a start. You can’t avoid them all.

And no, you wouldn’t have complete control over their food and their safety. Try living like that for one month. If you are not growing everything yourself, you have to trust others at some point. It is difficult and terrifying and a life of constant risk assessments with no guidance and you are criticized no matter what you do. “You can’t keep them in a bubble,” “They write traces on everything, you can’t take it seriously,” “I wouldn’t take that risk.”

So many people with allergies have no access to epipens, let alone decent medical advice. I think that many people would be genuinely shocked at how people with allergies are left to live (or die, as it were).

That poor mother and her deceased daughter, she will carry the guilt forever, I’m so sorry for the family.

I personally would not take an allergic child to a coffee shop BUT coffee chains are saying they have the procedures to make it safe so mum should not be blamed for this.
I think it likely the interpreter was a deliberate strategic move, although people are right about legal terminology being potentially different to every day language.
One moral question for me is should there be a two tier system of justice where a British born person is potentially treated differently to a non native? It does not sit right with me, especially when I just do not believe the mother would not state very clearly the dairy allergy.
Costa staff have always been super careful when I mention my mother’s (not too serious) nut allergy as have every restaurant we’ve been in for a good many years now.
Costa obviously do have a policy in place, and a book, so it is up to staff to adhere to keep the Public safe. Why on earth should senior management take the blame for someone not doing what they are supposed to. They would certainly not have even interviewed this person.
It’s very sad on all sides though.

I can't believe most views on this thread. At a minimum companies should be able to guarantee that they employ people whose language skills are good enough to understand and implement health and safety training and whose language skills are good enough to follow allergy requests from customers. Costa is totally at fault here.

No, at the corporation for corporate manslaughter

It's literally impossible to live an adult life in this way.

Would you say that someone who is blind should never leave the house because they can't be sure that they will be safe?

This is really common in the teen years as it's when the immune system matures.

Everyone with an IGE allergy should carry an epi pen by the nhs rations them due to cost. And then things like this happen.

Some are. The one at Costa isn't

Part of the point is that this girl's allergy appears to have become more severe overnight.

This is always a possibility.

So beforehand it could have been a manageable risk, just like you take.

Well said ❤️

They all do this ANYWAY. And the Food Standards Agency has already issued guidance saying that it doesn't exempt them from the laws that exist around allergies.

Lot of people commenting on this thread with zero knowledge of allergies or life with them.

Why should people who don't have any direct family member suffering from rare, life-endangering allergies have to have any speficif knowledge about them? Are you knowledgeable about living and dealing with any other rare disease? Are you knowledgeable about children suffering from progeria? Brittle-bone disease? Xeroderma pigmentosum? All these children have been unlucky to be born with rare conditions that limit their lives in extreme ways. No, it is not fair, and their conditions will exclude them from doing things other children or people without the condition do. That is part of what they need to learn about to survive in life. Life is not fair. Although I am sure that businesses would do everything in their hands to support these children if they know about their conditions, they should not be expected to cater to every single person with a rare condition.

Allergies and intolerances are relatively common. A minimum knowledge of them is expected in hospitality. But expecting a coffee shop to prevent a molecule of milk getting close to a severely allergic child is, in my opinion, not reasonable nor doable. These children do not have to "never get out of their houses", but yes, their parents should do a big cull of places they can order food from. In my and other posters' opinion, Costa Coffee is one of those places where a person who can die if she gets in contact with dairy should probably avoid.

She ate her food that had been on the same pass as her friends gluten containing food

What does that mean?

The staff possibly need more training, although if this was a miscommunication then it probably still would've happened. I'm sure there were multiple failings from all parties and the systems and processes. You can't expect anyone to be liable for someone's death unless it is a job that they have signed up for and are paid accordingly ie a surgeon or similar. Even then people make mistakes. A tragic situation for all involved.

I think she meant plate

I did think that but wondered why they would have been on the same plate.

@diddl @Galoop
‘The pass’ is the opening between the kitchen and the dining room - where kitchen staff ‘pass’ plates of food to the waiting staff for delivery to the table. It usually involves putting the plate down on ‘the pass’ pressing a bell or calling for ‘service’. There may be heating lamps to keep the food warm.

If Costa are successfully sued I imagine they will just put up signs advising customers that they cannot accommodate any allergy requests at all. I know I would if I owned a business serving food.
Presumably this poor girl had never had such a severe reaction before or her mother wouldn’t have bought her a drink from a cafe serving predominantly dairy drinks.

Have you RTFT though?

A, no one is saying it's reasonable to expect Costa to make a hot chocolate without a molecule of milk. The girl wasn't killed because of cross contamination, she was killed because she was given a cup full of cows milk.

B, the fact that they were ordering in a Costa and that they didn't have an epipen on them or realise she needed one implies that her allergy hadn't been that severe up to that point. They risk assessed based on what they knew about her allergy (suitable milk, ask for the jug to be washed).