Huw Edwards - receiving pics is a crime?

[PurpleMat]

Looking at the details in the Huw Edwards case, someone else sent him all these pics of underage children. And that is enough for him to be totally screwed and most likely going to prison. I've no idea if it makes a difference if you ask for them to be sent or not?

My DC are approaching secondary age when most of their peers will be getting mobile phones, and I am seriously worried about what kind of pictures of could be floating about on WhatsApp. It only takes one kid to be sent something dodgy by an older relative and it could be forwarded on to hundreds of others.

If one of my DC receives an unsolicited image and it is discovered (for example by the school confiscating a phone, which I'm lead to believe happens quite often) is that my DC totally screwed?

What exactly is the law on this?

I'm seriously thinking smartphones with WhatsApp for young teens are a bad idea at this point...

This lack of trust is a problem.

And it feels riskier if you’re from a group that the police have form for discrimination against.

Huw Edwards did NOT have copies of these photos on his phone, or anywhere else that the police found.
He was prosecuted because the sender had them on his phone and had sent them to Huw Edwards.
The only protection I can see is to report receiving them to the police in a timely fashion.

And never talking to that person again. HE continued taking with the other man after receiving child abuse images from him.

If there is anything positive to come from this situation it could be raised awareness on the legalities. I’d consider myself reasonably well informed, however until I read that article in the Times early in the week I hadn’t fully appreciated that just receiving images was an offence.

this made me think as I’d recently had to speak to our IT support about some odd WhatsApp groups that had appeared on my work phone (related to dodgy sounding investment ‘opportunities’). I was concerned my phone had been compromised but they said that if someone has got hold of your number then they can add you to any groups they like. Obvious really, but that event and all the stuff in the news made me realise it’s important to keep a close eye on which groups you are being added to on social media. I’d certainly be making kids aware of that too.

Mobile numbers in the public domain, such as a business mobile phone number on a website, are potentially at risk of malicious targeting. What a hassle it would be as a small business if your mobile phone was taken away for investigation for months.

It amazes me how many people are happy to give access to their data, camera, phone etc. All to be on the latest platform. This data is a goldmine for hackers and the platforms. Hackers because if they get the data they can do whatever they want. The platforms because the data and details can be monetized and we have signed our rights away.

You may well be right.

An ex-work colleague was convicted of having child abuse images. He'd been an active member of a WhatsApp group that was sharing the images, and he was apparently trying to arrange to procure a child for sex in real life.

He told the court a sob story about how he'd lost his job and was drinking and depressed and only got a suspended sentence.

I was shocked.

We all have low points in our lives, but we don't then 'accidentally' find ourselves in paedo rings, do we.

now THAT is an excellent idea.

Well by not reporting it, at the very least he was aiding and abetting a paedophile sending images of the most depraved child abuse. That's enough without any more nastiness on top.

Whistleblowers can be targeted for this reason - corrupt aspects of the police will confiscate mobile phones I understand, meaning that evidence exonerating you or incriminating others can't come before the courts. This has happened, and yes, without your devices I'm not even sure how you could contact a solicitor as most people don't have a landline these days.

You'd be keeping seriously ropey company if you're sent child abuse images.
I would imagine this sort of exchange would be with same like minded types.

When ds2 received VERY inappropriate images courtesy of a WhatsApp group, the first thing I did after sending the thread to myself as his parent was to delete the thread and images from his phone and block the number. My next steps were to report it to the police and the safeguarding officer at his school. I checked whether I had done anything wrong by forwarding the thread to myself and as my child is a minor, was assured that provided I did not forward the thread on to anyone else apart from the police, I would be ok.

What Huw is reported to have done is paid young people to send explicit images. He has actively sought them out. He did not 'accidentally' receive them as part of a larger group, he did not report that he was being sent inappropriate images. As a person in the public domain, he would have been well aware of the repercussions if he were caught from reporting on other similar incidents. But he was not thinking about anyone other than himself and his desires.

Nearly every single sex offender I work with has, at one point or another, claimed it's not their fault. They were set up. They are a victim. Very, very few admit from the beginning that their actions were wrong and that they need help.

I don't see him serving a jail sentence though. I honestly think the shame of being caught and convicted will be enough for him to do something stupid rather than face the consequences.

Whoever reassured you needs retraining because you committed a serious primal offence forwarding the thread.

I was well aware of that, however, the other option is I did nothing but delete and block the sender. As I was not intending to encourage sexual communication by forwarding the downloaded content to myself, in law it is considered a defensible decision.

We were told by the police that the correct course of action is to delete and then immediately report to the police. You should never forward anything.

This is based off a community support officer led session on sexting in a secondary school.

Teenagers do need to be very careful about sexual/nude images of any under 18s. If they receive one they need to report it, not just delete it, as deleting it won’t erase what the police can ask WhatsApp to recover. E.g. say people pass around a nude image of someone in their school, their parents report it to the police and then they can trace everyone who received or sent it. Obviously, those passing it on are guilty of distributing child pornography as well, which is a more serious crime.

I would say, if ever unsure, report to the school if sent from other pupils and they can advise/ pass to the police is necessary. It is very common for students to report things like this from their peers but it is dealt with in a way in which the person reported isn’t identified (or should be atleast!).

The only protection I can see is to report receiving them to the police in a timely fashion

Juast as good is not having ongoing communication with a convicted paedophile, requesting barely legal pics, or continuing the communication after the paedophile sends pics of horrific crimes against children.

Its not that hard to avoid being in HEs situation really, if you’re not a big nonce.

But this isn’t right because the police can claim you’re attempting to destroy evidence if you do that. This happened in a case local to me that went to court.

Could such a campaign [with information about what happens next when these images are reported to the authorities- in order to reduce fear of culpability when reporting] be funded by the social media platforms (inc WA) or even be introduced as an paelrt of T&Cs with a mandatory online tutorial in what to do etc...
I may have got some of the suggested details a bit wonky, but from my perspective this would be the socially responsible thing for these corporations to do.

@sunights this would be brilliant.

Yes good suggestions @sunights

And these platforms are being used to perpetuate harm to minors, so there should be an obligation to do more to help tackle it.

Cop here.
Receiving them isn't an offence ( unless you asked for them). However you must delete them within a reasonable amount of time and not hang on to them ans certainly not show or share them to anyone.
Once you send them on..this id 'making' them.. making an indecent image doesn't just mean actually filming but sending on and distributing them.
Similarly if you received an email and the title of the email suggested it was an intended image, delete and empty your recycle bin..don't open it.
If police ever download phones or emails, it can be seen which has been opened and saved elsewhere...

"Receiving them isn't an offence ( unless you asked for them)."

You are mistaken. Are you in the UK?

If you are in the UK and you really do believe this then please have a word with someone in your local PPU. They will put you right.

"Once you send them on..this id 'making' them.. making an indecent image doesn't just mean actually filming but sending on and distributing them."

You are totally mistaken about this - please, speak to somebody in your PPU.

Downloading or otherwise receiving indecent images is "making" as you are "making" a new copy of an existing image. This has been the case for I don't know how long, but at least 15 years as a minimum.

"Receiving them isn't an offence ( unless you asked for them). However you must delete them within a reasonable amount of time "

From this it appears that you may be thinking of the defence of receiving an unsolicited image that you then took reasonable steps to get rid of as soon as possible.

This is a possible defence, but each case turns on the facts and must be tested in court, or the CPS decide not to proceed with the case.

Get your kids to turn off airdrop. There were pictures flying round when I was on a trip on a coach with 60 students one day.

We’re told (as teachers) to not even look at something children want to show us if they're disclosing something. We take them to the safeguarding lead who decides how to proceed.