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Original poster

Huw Edwards - receiving pics is a crime?

300 replies

PurpleMat · 02/08/2024 08:03

Looking at the details in the Huw Edwards case, someone else sent him all these pics of underage children. And that is enough for him to be totally screwed and most likely going to prison. I've no idea if it makes a difference if you ask for them to be sent or not?

My DC are approaching secondary age when most of their peers will be getting mobile phones, and I am seriously worried about what kind of pictures of could be floating about on WhatsApp. It only takes one kid to be sent something dodgy by an older relative and it could be forwarded on to hundreds of others.

If one of my DC receives an unsolicited image and it is discovered (for example by the school confiscating a phone, which I'm lead to believe happens quite often) is that my DC totally screwed?

What exactly is the law on this?

I'm seriously thinking smartphones with WhatsApp for young teens are a bad idea at this point...

OP posts:
godmum56 · 02/08/2024 13:46

Internationalpony · 02/08/2024 12:47

Not the same thing as to handle stolen goods you have to actually accept the stolen goods in the first place meaning you have consented to handling them. The point the OP was making is that someone can send you illegal photos without your consent. Of course in this case he should have reported and deleted it but it would have been a crime even if he had done those things (although likely to be seen in a different light).

It’s been widely reported that it’s a criminal offence to receive such photos and that’s the crime in this case which is what the OP is referring to. That’s more like someone leaving stolen goods at your house while you’re not in and you get home and discover them. Regardless of what you do next (which might mitigate or aggravate the crime) you’ve already committed a crime.

Show quote history

In law (I think) you haven't actually committed a crime until you are found guilty of it. Plus police don't have to charge people with everything they could be charged with and then on top, the CPS have to decide to prosecute. So.....horrified person contacts police saying "I was sent this last night, here's my phone" They have come forward quickly and willingly and have no previous....charges unlikely and prosecution even more unlikely. Not the same as HE by a long chalk. The message to kids is the faster and more completely you do the right thing, the less trouble you are likely to be in.

daffodilandtulip · 02/08/2024 13:49

I think it's the saving, viewing, copying, sending that gets you in trouble. I'd like to think my child would just tell me and delete it.

KeirSpoutsTwaddle · 02/08/2024 13:52

daffodilandtulip · 02/08/2024 13:49

I think it's the saving, viewing, copying, sending that gets you in trouble. I'd like to think my child would just tell me and delete it.

That’s not enough. Deleting is not enough. You don’t have to save, copy or view.

If it’s there- and it is- you are strictly liable. If your child does tell you, go with them to the police. That could help protect other children.

user6876577657 · 02/08/2024 13:54

daffodilandtulip · 02/08/2024 13:49

I think it's the saving, viewing, copying, sending that gets you in trouble. I'd like to think my child would just tell me and delete it.

Yeah, you won't feel the same after the police knock on your door like they did with us (see long post on page 1)

godmum56 · 02/08/2024 14:02

Lavenderblossoms · 02/08/2024 12:04

So if you get an image, have the setting that photos save auto to your gallery, can prove you didn't open the message. If you saw it in your gallery and went straight to the police to show them. You could prove it by time stamps Etc. You'd still get a conviction for that. That's seriously out of order.

It should be updated for technology.

That doesn't mean I don't think Huw is guilty. I mean for anyone else. I don't understand how that can be.

It isn't. As I have said further down this thread, Police do not have to charge everyone and then the CPS decides whether or not to prosecute. So do the right thing in an open and timely manner and if you have no previous, being charged is unlikely, being prosecuted is unlikely and being convicted is unlikely. I won't say blindly trust the police because sadly I do not, but conviction is not automatic.

user6876577657 · 02/08/2024 14:10

Whilst conviction isn't automatic, the police said to me that they do have to report every case to social services. This was one of the most upsetting elements in our case.

LindorDoubleChoc · 02/08/2024 14:13

I've just read that Alex Williams, the paedophile who sent the pictures to Edwards and who continued a WhatsApp relationship with him, was given a 12 month SUSPENDED sentence! So fuck knows what's going to happen. But God, I'm so shocked!

MsMoody · 02/08/2024 14:15

Not to defend him, but I would guess he didn't want to a) be outed; and b) ruin his reputation as a clean cut face of the BBC by making his porn sharing public. Hence why he didn't report it at the time.

godmum56 · 02/08/2024 14:32

LindorDoubleChoc · 02/08/2024 14:13

I've just read that Alex Williams, the paedophile who sent the pictures to Edwards and who continued a WhatsApp relationship with him, was given a 12 month SUSPENDED sentence! So fuck knows what's going to happen. But God, I'm so shocked!

maybe he dobbed HE in

magicmushrooms · 02/08/2024 14:36

Iloveyoubut · 02/08/2024 09:39

But I’d you see someone being assaulted and you don’t report it… it’s not a criminal offence which is going to land you in jail which is the difference. Morally obviously if report it. I have to say the whole law around this needs to be strongly clarified and ironed out.

Show quote history

But the photos are of under 18’s which changes it for everyone including teens sending nudes to each other & child abuse images, & adults grooming under 18s.

this really needs addressing in schools etc with packs for parents.

HelpMeGetThrough · 02/08/2024 15:09

Well, what would you do if you were sent such an image? I would delete it and report the sender to the police.

The problem is, the Police are so untrustworthy these days, they'd probably find a way to do you.

I wouldn't trust any copper as far as I could throw them.

AvrielFinch · 02/08/2024 15:10

You simply report to the police any images sent to you of a child being raped or sexually abused. And you tell your children if they receive anything like this they need to tell you or the police, otherwise they could be seen as guilty as well.

I mean if you went into someone's house and saw photos of a child being raped would you just ignore them? Simply because they are on a phone does not change anything.

AvrielFinch · 02/08/2024 15:18

user6876577657 · 02/08/2024 08:28

I have named changed for this.

Last summer, we were all happily sat in the garden (Me, DH and two teen DSs) when the police turned up at the house. Two officers.

They had information that illegal child pornography had been viewed in the house. They were actually already pretty sure which phone it was on (thankfully since if they had thought it was DH it would have been far more difficult a situation).

It transpired that DS2 who was 13 had been sent pictures on snapchat and via discord. He was going through a period where he had made online friends (initially through minecraft) and as part of that he had been sent photos.

The police went through all the DCs devices. They literally stayed in the house and went through their laptops iPads and their phones. They were here for a few hours.

They found a number of pornographic images which had been sent via snapchat from randoms (of adults trying to encourage dialogue with DS2). They also found images and videos of underage children. Plus evidence of hensai (japanese cartoon porn) on DS1's device.

In DS1's case (he was 15) they warned him that hensai is still pornographic content and because there is a tendency to portray characters as much younger that this counts as child pornography. They said if he was older they would still be able to prosecute over possession of this (although the police officer told me afterwards that there wasn't much on there really so it was more to give him a scare).

In DS2s case they said that the stuff on snapchat was of underage girls but that because the girls were of DS2s age and it was clear they had sent the photos and videos to him unprompted that they wouldn't take that further even though technically it was an offence. DS hadn't forwarded anything on or anything like that. There was one image on his phone which he had deleted. It was a graphic image of a young girl probably under ten and DS had responded saying something along the lines of "FFS don't send that to me - way too young - just delete it". The police made it very clear that just receiving the image was an offence.

Both DC were in shock. When speaking to the police alone we told them not to pull any punches with them so they spoke to them at length and frankly terrified them both.

I actually felt like I was in shock for a couple of days after seeing the images.

Both DH and I work in a professional role where we cannot have any criminal convictions. If they thought we had downloaded the images we would have lost our jobs and been struck off so that we couldn't work again.

We then then had follow up calls with social services. Fortunately we were "discharged" pretty much straight away since they could see that we were supportive of the police actions and that there wasn't general reason for concern but we are now as a family "in the system" and if anything like this happened again with either child then there would be issues.

I actually think we were lucky. If the DC had been older the police would have taken further action. So I'm sort of glad it happened in a bizarre way. At the time it was absolutely horrendous.

Keep an eye on your children's devices. The crap about their right to "privacy" is outweighed by the damage that can be caused if you don't monitor what is going on (at the time I thought I did but I'm not familiar enough with the apps and so didn't know where to look).

This is why parents need to teach children to tell them if they receive any sexual images of a child, even if they images are of a child the same age as your child.

I know CPS are overwhelmed with cases where sexual abuse of children has been viewed, so they only prosecute more serious cases. Huw's was serious because it involved such young children being raped.

Iloveyoubut · 02/08/2024 15:42

magicmushrooms · 02/08/2024 14:36

But the photos are of under 18’s which changes it for everyone including teens sending nudes to each other & child abuse images, & adults grooming under 18s.

this really needs addressing in schools etc with packs for parents.

Show quote history

I totally agree with you. I think I’m slightly freaked out because I’m mentally catching up with so much with regards to this, mobiles, teens… it’s a lot. It just wasn’t at all on my radar, my son is nearly 20 now but I think I’m actually having a bit of a shock that I was unaware of any of this until the other day! I 100% agree with you that this needs to be widely addressed and steps as to EXACTLY what to do if you’re sent unsolicited images need to be made available… I’m shocked at myself I think, that I didn’t know about any of this. My son is a total goodie-two-shoes geek right enough, as are his friends, but it would still have been good to know, info packs for parents is a brilliant idea!

ABirdsEyeView · 02/08/2024 16:04

Thank you @godmum56

Areolaborealis · 02/08/2024 17:54

AvrielFinch · 02/08/2024 15:10

You simply report to the police any images sent to you of a child being raped or sexually abused. And you tell your children if they receive anything like this they need to tell you or the police, otherwise they could be seen as guilty as well.

I mean if you went into someone's house and saw photos of a child being raped would you just ignore them? Simply because they are on a phone does not change anything.

But its not always as straightforward as what is described above. If a 17 year old has a legal and consensual sexual relationship with another 17 year old, and the girl sends a topless photo for a laugh on a Saturday night suddenly they are both guilty of making, sharing, downloading child porn, put on the sex offenders register and lives ruined.

AvrielFinch · 02/08/2024 18:12

@Areolaborealis being put on the sex offenders register for what you suggest does not happen.

LBFseBrom · 02/08/2024 18:32

Some years ago a boy of 14 was put on the sex offender register. He had sent his girlfriend of the same age a photo of his 'bits', she in turn shared it with friends for a laugh. Obviously someone complained, maybe a parent or teacher, and the result was him being on the register. Nothing happened to her.

I felt at the time that, though they were 'naughty', his punishment was too harsh. I don't suppose he was on it for that long but it still happened.

AvrielFinch · 02/08/2024 18:57

@LBFseBrom can you provide a link for that? It would have been reported.

Finlandia86 · 02/08/2024 19:35

It’s scary to think that this could be used maliciously. If somebody wanted to get you sacked - all they’d have to do is send you pictures from a burner phone, then report you anonymously. Could ruin your life.

Mayhemmumma · 02/08/2024 19:39

Can we stop calling it porn.

It's child abuse.

Finlandia86 · 02/08/2024 19:44

Finlandia86 · 02/08/2024 19:35

It’s scary to think that this could be used maliciously. If somebody wanted to get you sacked - all they’d have to do is send you pictures from a burner phone, then report you anonymously. Could ruin your life.

Edited

Potentially extortion, too. I find it really worrying.

Original poster
PurpleMat · 02/08/2024 20:03

Hello, OP here.
Sorry I had to go out with the kids so I've just caught up.

I'm slightly regretting mentioning Huw Edwards, as my post was really nothing to do with his case - I was simply using him as a timely example in order to discuss protecting our teens from the dangers of receiving an unsolicited illegal image.
I was not defending HE in any way, I was simply pointing out how the law seems to be lagging behind modern technology, and is not clear for the lay person.

From reading all these posts I still don't understand what the "correct" thing to do would be. Delete the image or not?

And with trust in the police at an all time low, I can see why some people might pause before rushing to report, if there is even a small chance of any kind of prosecution. It's not clear enough what will happen. And I can imagine most teens would not enjoy the authorities doing a deep interrogation of all their devices, and so they might be tempted to delete and stick their head in the sand.

I've certainly decided that my DC will not be getting a smartphone anytime soon!

OP posts:
BigFatLiar · 02/08/2024 21:54

@PurpleMat I'd stick with the brick for now. They can call or text.

People will suggest that if you go to the police straight away they'll understand and deal with it but as you say it depends on whether or not you trust them and how the police are feeling on the day. We haven't heard much about the others involved in the HE case considering the young man involved handed over his contacts. Sometimes I suspect if someone is in the public view the police will go out of their way to make an example of them.

Lopine · 03/08/2024 08:27

There needs to be a public information campaign and reassurance provided to the public that they will not be automatically treated like a criminal if they report the unsolicited images that they have received.

The idea of children and young people being exploited in this way makes me feel sick, and I would want to report it so the perpetrators can be tracked down and the victims given support,…but at the same time, no one wants to have their life turned upside down for doing the right thing.

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