Huw Edwards - receiving pics is a crime?

[PurpleMat]

Looking at the details in the Huw Edwards case, someone else sent him all these pics of underage children. And that is enough for him to be totally screwed and most likely going to prison. I've no idea if it makes a difference if you ask for them to be sent or not?

My DC are approaching secondary age when most of their peers will be getting mobile phones, and I am seriously worried about what kind of pictures of could be floating about on WhatsApp. It only takes one kid to be sent something dodgy by an older relative and it could be forwarded on to hundreds of others.

If one of my DC receives an unsolicited image and it is discovered (for example by the school confiscating a phone, which I'm lead to believe happens quite often) is that my DC totally screwed?

What exactly is the law on this?

I'm seriously thinking smartphones with WhatsApp for young teens are a bad idea at this point...

I suspect there's more to the HE story that's not in the public domain. If you solicit images even if you don't ask for underage ones, it's different to being randomly sent something too. It is a conversation that needs to happen when youngsters get phones though, if you feel they are too young for conversations about consent, photos etc then they are too young for a smart phone

'Oh, no don't do that' <fails to delete, block or report the images>

'Oh, no, I don't want those' <keeps images>

Plausible deniability?

Also if you receive something you need to report it, HE didn't hence why he's implicated, your dc need to know that if they receive an image which comes under this sort of bracket they must immediately show you so you can report to the safeguarding lead at school who know exactly what needs to be done - it's a major issue at secondary schools.

No-one is making excuses for him. We are having an (in my opinion) interesting conversation about how the law works in this area, which a lot of people don't seem to understand (myself included until this case came up, and I am a solicitor).

What Huw Edwards did is clearly illegal, with no hope of a plausible excuse for why he should be treated leniently. A few 'oh please don't send me those again' and then continuing to receive images from the same person clearly takes him out of any leniency.

But we are making the point that the receipt itself is the offence. As that poor police woman who was prosecuted despite not even viewing the photo.

So view and share with two people so all three of you get a criminal record?

As regards technology and smart phones etc. I'm a very competent adult, but I'm a disaster as regards whatsapp, wouldn't know how to use snapchat or instagrame, only know some of the stuff because my children refer to them. I can use social media, as in use my computer or ipad for mumsnet. The kids help me with the technology as it drives me batty. Until this thread I'd no idea that you could be sent stuff and that it was uploaded into your phone even if you didn't open it. I miss messages and stuff. I've only had a smart phone for the last 2 years, most of the stuff on it I never use, I use the weather, google, spotify and what'sapp. Last week, for the first time, I created a playlist on spotify, but my eldest had to teach me how. I can run a household, use excel and word, understand accountancy, make investments, understand pensions, tax etc. But smartphones bedazzle me.

If someone sent me an illegal pic and I didn't see the message, didn't open it, and that is a crime, well there's something wrong with that law. If I did open it and it was porn, I'd delete it, wouldn't even occur to me to report it. Two weeks ago the kids told me to delete some scam on my phone, I'd no idea it was a scam, but they know automatically.

Assumed it was because the officer in question was a black woman, and the Met is a sexist and racist organisation that didn't want the likes of her in the force - I don't say that lightly, either.

What, report it to the overworked, corrupt and useless police? What for? So they can turn it around and pin it on you, to save them putting in a shift?

But we are making the point that the receipt itself is the offence. As that poor police woman who was prosecuted despite not even viewing the photo.

Guve me a break. Of course she viewed it. I was delighted when she was convicted and lost her job. Why are you defending this person @Figment1982 ?

When the police visited us (see long post above) they showed us the various ways in which images and data is stored on devices. Basically it's incredibly difficult to remove it and so even if you think it's deleted, it isn't really.

It isn't nearly as straightforward as deleting an image and then emptying the deleted items file.

Once you have received it you're in difficulty basically. Its very tricky for young teens to navigate since if they report it they're going to have their parents know they've seen porn (which they won't want - particularly since its likely their devices will have other pornographic images on which are not illegal but which will also be uncovered), their devices gone through in detail (which they won't want) and involvement with the police (which they won't want).

All the PHSE sessions in the world won't guarantee that a child takes the right steps. I suspect a significant number of adults would also just delete and not report due to the investigation that would follow.

So in terms of what should we (or our teens) do if sent something illegal via WhatsApp, I'm still really unclear about whether we (they) should delete and report or keep as evidence and report. Or what? I think there needs to be more public information about this.

Stupid advice there. You do realise the police can see from the sender’s phone what was sent and find out who the receiver is?

nope. If you are in any doubt, report.

Why on earth didn't Huw Edwards block this guy after being sent stuff like that ? He carried on corresponding with him instead

When the police forensically examine a phone, it doesn't matter whether you deleted an image, it will still show as a file 'on' your phone/computer/tablet etc. And you can then be in trouble for that image. Doesn't matter whether you didn't want it, deleted it etc.

The answer is to use the many apps and tools now available than can help you block as much of this from your kids phones as possible. You can block all social media apps, control their screen time, you can even block them from going on the net via the browser apps. And then in addition, you check the phone, daily. As PP have said - kids these age do not need 'privacy' on their phone they need parents safeguarding them, checking who they are regularly chatting to etc

We were told delete and immediately report (police can recover the deleted item).

Watch out for VPNs on your child's phone. If they have a VPN they are likely to be watching illegal content (porn or other stuff that is too old for them).

Do you have his phone number?

'cos I don't.

Presumably, the people who did knew he had a sexual interest in young children and other people with images knew his contact details.

Most 'slebs' don't have their personal mobile numbers in circulation.

That's one side to this.

Most have some history where they have developed a network and they are supplied images because the other person knows they'd want to see them.

The policewoman didn't know what it contained . Her sister sent it to her I believe .

But in order for you to be charged with a crime, the police has to find a physical copy of the image on your phone.

I have a solicitor friend who works in that area.

Putting the huw Edward’s situation aside because I don’t know enough about that case to comment, I agree the law is a bit murky and technology has out paced the law in this area. Adolescents and children are particularly vulnerable to getting caught up in this with things like WhatsApp and Snapchat now days. I remember back in the early 00s when I was a young teenager and there was a video of a women having sex with a horse widely circulating on people’s phones at my school, I never possessed it on mine but I definitely seen it a number of times, people immaturely just thought it was funny (of course it’s not, it’s abusive, disgusting and illegal) but young people don’t fully understand the abusive nature of the adult film industry and the legalities around it so I could definitely see a situation where they unknowingly break the law!!

Not everyone does WhatsApp - in academic circles many are actually very wary of using messaging apps with good reason. It’s also not everyone’s idea of a good thing. I know people of all ages who eschew all social media

The prosecution in her case agreed that she had never opened the file.

Why are you delighting in a decorated and trailblazing black female police officer losing her job?

Thank you for your insightful posts and for sharing what must have been a terrible time for your family. When the Bill Clinton story broke, I learnt that even if you delete, and then delete from the delete folder, that there is still an imprint on the computer, that stuff is never truly deleted. So when I get rid of old phones or computers, I always destroy them, because you never know. Things like pictures of my children I have when they were young in swimming pools and the like, always aware that I don't want them in the wrong hands.

Because in her position she should have reported it but was protecting her dsis.