Huw Edwards - receiving pics is a crime?

[PurpleMat]

Looking at the details in the Huw Edwards case, someone else sent him all these pics of underage children. And that is enough for him to be totally screwed and most likely going to prison. I've no idea if it makes a difference if you ask for them to be sent or not?

My DC are approaching secondary age when most of their peers will be getting mobile phones, and I am seriously worried about what kind of pictures of could be floating about on WhatsApp. It only takes one kid to be sent something dodgy by an older relative and it could be forwarded on to hundreds of others.

If one of my DC receives an unsolicited image and it is discovered (for example by the school confiscating a phone, which I'm lead to believe happens quite often) is that my DC totally screwed?

What exactly is the law on this?

I'm seriously thinking smartphones with WhatsApp for young teens are a bad idea at this point...

It makes sense to me to call someone who was convicted of possessing an indecent video of a child and who was placed on the sex offenders register for five years, a sex offender. The sister was convicted of distributing the image and also had to be on the sex offenders register for five years.

I note that Williams resigned earlier this year.

Looking at the details in the Huw Edwards case, someone else sent him all these pics of underage children. And that is enough for him to be totally screwed and most likely going to prison. I've no idea if it makes a difference if you ask for them to be sent or not?

The guy who sent the pics got a 12 month suspended sentence so I don't think HE will go to prison.

The rights and wrongs about the length of the sentence are for another thread.

So to get this clear in my head, if dc are sent an inappropriate pic of another minor, and it's not blurred, they should not press on it / open the image, should not delete it, and should tell parents straight away?

Parent should then also not open the image and report to the police straight away?

I find this terrifying, especially with something like Snapchat where they can't see what's been sent til they press on view snap or whatever

So if you get an image, have the setting that photos save auto to your gallery, can prove you didn't open the message. If you saw it in your gallery and went straight to the police to show them. You could prove it by time stamps Etc. You'd still get a conviction for that. That's seriously out of order.

It should be updated for technology.

That doesn't mean I don't think Huw is guilty. I mean for anyone else. I don't understand how that can be.

if anyone, family, friends, ANYONE, sent me an image i even suspected was of someone underage, i would immediately report it to the police. no question. what decent person wouldnt? would i care if it meant my phone or whatever being taken for them to check where it came from? no, because the CHILD is of more importance, not the tech. the fact he did NOT immediately report it and continued to engage with someone who was sending him those images is the problem. he can claim mental health all he likes but he still engaged he still made that choice to directly keep that conversation going with someone he KNEW was a paedophile. that is not okay in any way

You think if your teen/tween received pictures of a young child involving penetration they wouldn’t know enough to tell an adult about this!

This is covered a lot at schools, but parents need to do their part as well.

Also, this isn’t one photo, it is 7 category A photos. After 1 you would certainly block the sender, unless you actually wanted photos like that!

The law is always playing catchup with technology. New platforms, encryption, overseas sites etc. User beware is my philosophy

Yes... well, you would potentially be liable for conviction. The offence has taken place, it then comes down to whether the CPS decide it's in the public interest to prosecute you.

The test of possession on the CPS website is:

The prosecution must prove that the images are within the accused’s custody or control such that they were capable of accessing them and they must know that they possess the images. The accused need not know that the photographs were indecent.

The only defence available in this circumstance would be:

that the photograph was sent to him without any prior request made by him or on his behalf and that he did not keep it for an unreasonable time

The 'unreasonable time' is not defined and would be for the jury to decide if it went to court.

Now, I am sure that if you went straight to the police with this information then this would be a potential defence to you, and therefore perhaps the CPS would decide it was not in the public interest to prosecute you.

Just like all those sub-postmasters called up the Horizons helpline for assistance with problems with their IT system...

Yeah sure. You carry on explaining away old men harming children, and I'll go on condemning them. I know which side id rather be on.

Someone who is massively famous, married with kids and has been sexting barely legal boys is unlikely to report their own involvement in something that many many people (maybe even most) get away with.

If he ignored it then it could very well have just gone away (as far as he is concerned). He’s only been caught because of this other guy being caught. Most aren’t, and in his job, he will know that better than most.

Yes, but even if you don't open the photo and report to police straight away, you (or your child) have still potentially committed an offence. While its unlikely to go to trial, and even more unlikely to result in a conviction, it could mean months of absolute hell and life-changing repercussions if word gets out. And ALL the tech in your house would be seized, not just that one device.

Unfortunately some police forces are absolutely dreadful for returning property seized as evidence, even long after the case has been closed with no charges brought - I worked for a company that was accused of financial misconduct and all our computers and servers (including the ipad belonging to an employee's child who had come to work for the day) were seized in a raid. The investigation was closed within a couple of months when it became apparent that there was no evidence, but it was over a year before property was returned - much of it missing or damaged. Of course the company had collapsed by then. This was in the 2010s, hopefully things are better now.

Oh but he's 67, he didn't know what he was doing, according to some people.

If you can tell what it is then you've already created a copy, even if it's a thumbnail.

Yes but no evidence of “soliciting” which the PP I was replying to said.

Not the same thing as to handle stolen goods you have to actually accept the stolen goods in the first place meaning you have consented to handling them. The point the OP was making is that someone can send you illegal photos without your consent. Of course in this case he should have reported and deleted it but it would have been a crime even if he had done those things (although likely to be seen in a different light).

It’s been widely reported that it’s a criminal offence to receive such photos and that’s the crime in this case which is what the OP is referring to. That’s more like someone leaving stolen goods at your house while you’re not in and you get home and discover them. Regardless of what you do next (which might mitigate or aggravate the crime) you’ve already committed a crime.

How do you stop your phone from auto saving pictures sent to you. Have iPhone and having read this thread need to make sure this is done on DD's phone, just in case her dozy mates send her anything I don't want her seeing

I don't mean nasty stuff btw. Her friends are nice kids, but I wouldn't put I past a boy to send a dick pic!

Most of us would (hopefully) report the pics to the Police. now you have a time to show you may have taken action (Not 48 hours or next week). How many of us have received these sort of pics? I work in IT and I can guarantee that the receiver has been browsing/emailing/whatsapping where they shouldnt. It can be accidental but when I've looked at internet history and see 'vicars in rubber' or 'asian babes' (other sites/fetishes available) then I have to think there is more going on. Huw just kept up the conversation and didnt think that the person at the opposite end has an in/out box full of messages from his clients.

@Pedallleur

but vicars in rubber or Asian babes are not indecent images of children.

They would be considered fairly normal 🤮 adult porn. Which I think you will find is absolutely endemic in adult men, doesn’t mean they’re all pedophiles.

I did not say that, you didn’t read the comment properly - it basically says some people aren’t great with WhatsApp etc. but in this case the fact of investigation for some time suggests he’s done something bad.

Read more carefully

it doesnt but that browser history can give you a clue. I never opened that! Well its your username and you've been on those sites frequently. Do it on your own device NOT a works issued one.

If I remember correctly, there was a case in Ireland where a woman's phone was confiscated when her house was raided by the police. Iirc she was renting and she shared the house with other people - she wasn't the subject of the raid. The police were targeting the people she lived with. It transpired that at some point she had been sent an image (or images) of child pornography. She immediately replied saying something along the lines of, "WTF! Why are you sending me this horrible stuff?". She deleted the image(s) and never sent them on to anyone else. But she still ended up in court over it. I can't remember what the outcome was though.

I read it fine, and I'm not the only one who took it the way you actually wrote it.

Age is not a defense.

Users can adjust how photos are saved on their iPhone by altering settings in the Photos app. One can stop photos from auto-saving by going to the Settings app, scrolling to Photos, and disabling the iCloud Photos option to prevent photos from automatically uploading to iCloud.

If my children had been sent Category A images of 7-year-olds like Huw Edwards - involving penetrative sex, sex with an animal or sadism - they would have told me. I'd have reported it to the police, obviously.

There are lots of horrific pictures which are not necessarily penetrative sex, sex with an animal etc.

And if Maisie from year 9 who your son really likes, sends your son a video of herself with her top off is he going to be quite so quick to report it to you/the police?

Or if his best friend sends him some explicit images he's been sent which appear to be of an underage child is he going to report his best friend to the police or is he just going to delete them (except they're not actually ever deleted).

And remember the police don't generally trace these simply by following a trail from phone to phone. Its far more sophisticated than that but straight forward for them if the user isn't using a VPN to try to hide their actions.