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Original poster

Huw Edwards - receiving pics is a crime?

300 replies

PurpleMat · 02/08/2024 08:03

Looking at the details in the Huw Edwards case, someone else sent him all these pics of underage children. And that is enough for him to be totally screwed and most likely going to prison. I've no idea if it makes a difference if you ask for them to be sent or not?

My DC are approaching secondary age when most of their peers will be getting mobile phones, and I am seriously worried about what kind of pictures of could be floating about on WhatsApp. It only takes one kid to be sent something dodgy by an older relative and it could be forwarded on to hundreds of others.

If one of my DC receives an unsolicited image and it is discovered (for example by the school confiscating a phone, which I'm lead to believe happens quite often) is that my DC totally screwed?

What exactly is the law on this?

I'm seriously thinking smartphones with WhatsApp for young teens are a bad idea at this point...

OP posts:
Seriestwo · 02/08/2024 08:05

Interested, I also wondered this.

Jifmicroliquid · 02/08/2024 08:07

You can change settings on WhatsApp to not automatically save pictures. Might be worth doing for your DCs.

Hazeby · 02/08/2024 08:08

Well, what would you do if you were sent such an image? I would delete it and report the sender to the police.

The trouble comes if you solicit an image, or save it, download it, view it multiple times, send it on. But I can’t imagine anyone who didn’t have a sexual interest in children doing any of that.

LakelandDreams · 02/08/2024 08:09

It's quite scary isn't it? I vaguely remember a case of a police woman I think it was, who was sent a picture by her sister. She didn't ask for it, didn't engage with it, and I think deleted it. She still got a conviction and lost her job.

Tbskejue · 02/08/2024 08:10

I believe it’s to do with soliciting those photos. If he didn’t want them he could and should have left that chat immediately where they were sent.

Hazeby · 02/08/2024 08:10

LakelandDreams · 02/08/2024 08:09

It's quite scary isn't it? I vaguely remember a case of a police woman I think it was, who was sent a picture by her sister. She didn't ask for it, didn't engage with it, and I think deleted it. She still got a conviction and lost her job.

Presumably because she didn’t report it. It’s a criminal offence to send such an image.

Original poster
PurpleMat · 02/08/2024 08:11

Hazeby · 02/08/2024 08:08

Well, what would you do if you were sent such an image? I would delete it and report the sender to the police.

The trouble comes if you solicit an image, or save it, download it, view it multiple times, send it on. But I can’t imagine anyone who didn’t have a sexual interest in children doing any of that.

But if you delete the image, how do you prove it was sent to you?

Also, DC are not as sensible as adults, and often do silly things without thinking through the consequences!

OP posts:
Pinkypinkyplonk · 02/08/2024 08:12

I think it’s also because he received more pictures, didn’t report, continued with the friendships

Doggymummar · 02/08/2024 08:12

I wondered about this too. Seems silly, I can't control what people send me. I even had a rude video sent to on LinkedIn FFS. I reported it and deleted it but nothing is ever really deleted is it.

Hazeby · 02/08/2024 08:13

PurpleMat · 02/08/2024 08:11

But if you delete the image, how do you prove it was sent to you?

Also, DC are not as sensible as adults, and often do silly things without thinking through the consequences!

Show quote history

I agree, I have teenagers. It’s just another thing you have to make them aware of on the ‘Think about what you’re doing’ list.

It’s a long list.

VesperLind · 02/08/2024 08:13

LakelandDreams · 02/08/2024 08:09

It's quite scary isn't it? I vaguely remember a case of a police woman I think it was, who was sent a picture by her sister. She didn't ask for it, didn't engage with it, and I think deleted it. She still got a conviction and lost her job.

There was an interesting thread on TwiX yesterday about this. Leaving aside the Huw Edwards situation, the lawyer who posted it said that yes, the mere fact of receiving an illegal image, unsolicited and unopened, is a criminal act. He explained that the relevant legislation pre-dates smartphones and therefore should be revised and updated to take account of exactly the scenario that befell the senior policewoman whose life imploded as a result.

magicmushrooms · 02/08/2024 08:13

It’s a crime scene- if you saw someone been assaulted would you report it? Yes. So if you receive photos of child assault that needs to be reported in the same way. There can be a lot of digital forensics to be had from these messages. Huw Edwards sat on it and ‘consumed’ further pictures sent- that alone is enough.

Think about the Pete Townshead case a while back. https://amp.theguardian.com/media/2003/may/07/digitalmedia.arts

Summertimer · 02/08/2024 08:13

So he’s 62. It is possible he’s not social media savvy enough to think about dealing with WhatsApp settings. However, this has been under investigation for a while so there’s probably more to it than something simple

LondonGrimmer · 02/08/2024 08:14

I was wondering this. Also the term "making indecent images". In the news article I read- BBC online - I think they said this term is used even if you just received it and did nothing with it. I always thought "making" inferred you were more involved in the filming/taking pictures and/or videos, or that you'd edited them or something.

taybert · 02/08/2024 08:16

Well I think your point that smartphones for young teens are a bad idea is a very valid one for a whole host of reasons. And whilst I’m not sure a child would be “screwed” if they only received an unsolicited image, they could certainly get in a lot of trouble for passing it on. It’s also incredibly important that teenagers understand that taking indecent images of themselves is also illegal as making such images of anyone under 18 is covered by the law.

The law is there for a good reason- to protect children. The fact that it’s potentially easy for children to fall foul of that law just further demonstrates to me that a smartphone is not a safe device for young teens to be in possession of.

Spinet · 02/08/2024 08:21

I just read he received 7 category A pictures among many other slightly lower graded ones. Don't Google what that means (I just did and wished I hadn't) but it's the most serious and depicts young children. If someone sent you one of those pictures what would you do? I know what I would do. I think generally people over react about this stuff but that seems pretty clear to me.

crumblingschools · 02/08/2024 08:22

I think technically you can be in trouble even if you don’t ask for the photo. And this rule relates to images of under 18s. Teenagers have to be wary of sending nude images of themselves to partners too as that falls within this legislation too. That is usually drummed into students in PHSE lessons

Original poster
PurpleMat · 02/08/2024 08:23

LondonGrimmer · 02/08/2024 08:14

I was wondering this. Also the term "making indecent images". In the news article I read- BBC online - I think they said this term is used even if you just received it and did nothing with it. I always thought "making" inferred you were more involved in the filming/taking pictures and/or videos, or that you'd edited them or something.

Yes I also thought that the wording of the crime was outdated and misleading. You're right that "making indecent images" to any lay person sounds like actually taking the images yourself, not simply receiving them.

It sounds like smartphones have rapidly outstripped the pace of change in the law in this area.

OP posts:
taybert · 02/08/2024 08:24

Also, the idea that this was naivety on his part is a bit far fetched. It’s not about him having the wrong WhatsApp setting because he’s in his 60s. My parents are in their 60s, if they received an image of child abuse on their phone they would immediately call the police, because that’s the only correct course of action. Put yourself in that position for a moment, you don’t just text back and say “I’d prefer you didn’t send me those” then continue to chat about the weather, you’d immediately realise this was very very wrong and report it.

Aaron95 · 02/08/2024 08:25

LondonGrimmer · 02/08/2024 08:14

I was wondering this. Also the term "making indecent images". In the news article I read- BBC online - I think they said this term is used even if you just received it and did nothing with it. I always thought "making" inferred you were more involved in the filming/taking pictures and/or videos, or that you'd edited them or something.

Making indecent images doesn't mean what it suggests. It doesn't mean the person was the photographer or.in any way involved. It just means they have images on their phone, Email, hard drive etc.

velvetcoat · 02/08/2024 08:25

Well, obviously you cant help if someone sends you something you dont want but surely then you would say "stop sending this, I dont want to see this" and then report it.

The difference here is that he was offering money to receive the pictures and asking for them and getting angry when the 17 year old only sent a pic of his chest - he literally berated him for not sending more explicit photos.

Original poster
PurpleMat · 02/08/2024 08:25

Spinet · 02/08/2024 08:21

I just read he received 7 category A pictures among many other slightly lower graded ones. Don't Google what that means (I just did and wished I hadn't) but it's the most serious and depicts young children. If someone sent you one of those pictures what would you do? I know what I would do. I think generally people over react about this stuff but that seems pretty clear to me.

As I replied to a pp, I'm not questioning what an adult would do if they received such an image. I'm thinking about what an immature young teen would do. A teen who may not fully realise the consequences of their actions.

OP posts:
Mousefoot · 02/08/2024 08:25

Summertimer · 02/08/2024 08:13

So he’s 62. It is possible he’s not social media savvy enough to think about dealing with WhatsApp settings. However, this has been under investigation for a while so there’s probably more to it than something simple

😆 He's worked all his life as a journalist That is the most bonkers thing I've heard.

Bigcoatlady · 02/08/2024 08:26

It's more complicated than that. He and the other guy were exchanging a lot of porn over a period of time. Other guy asked if he wanted underage stuff, he said no, months later he was sent cat a images (that included penetration of a kid as young as 7) he replied saying he didn't want anything illegal, they carried on exchanging legal porn.

The offence is manufacturing images (in this case by replicating them on your phone) and one defence is not knowing they are illegal. But Edwards clearly did as after he received images of a seven yr old being raped he asked not to be sent more like that but carried on swapping legal porn. Whilst there's no suggestion he wanted or enjoyed the images he had he kept them and didn't inform the police of their existence, so he has no defense he didn't know they were illegal.

The volume of offending like this is huge. But prosecutions are rare of young people. As you say illegal images do get circulated between kids. But it's more likely to be in the public interest to at most caution kids unless there is a pattern of deliberately trying to obtain cat a or b material. Tell your son never to swap indecent images and if he receives anything dodgy show yo or a trusted adult (in person don't forward it to another device) and go to the police.

He will be ok so long as he is responsible.

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