Huw Edwards - receiving pics is a crime?

[PurpleMat]

Looking at the details in the Huw Edwards case, someone else sent him all these pics of underage children. And that is enough for him to be totally screwed and most likely going to prison. I've no idea if it makes a difference if you ask for them to be sent or not?

My DC are approaching secondary age when most of their peers will be getting mobile phones, and I am seriously worried about what kind of pictures of could be floating about on WhatsApp. It only takes one kid to be sent something dodgy by an older relative and it could be forwarded on to hundreds of others.

If one of my DC receives an unsolicited image and it is discovered (for example by the school confiscating a phone, which I'm lead to believe happens quite often) is that my DC totally screwed?

What exactly is the law on this?

I'm seriously thinking smartphones with WhatsApp for young teens are a bad idea at this point...

I don't think they're handwringing. I think they're just trying to understand how it could happen and try and educate themselves and their kids on how to avoid.

The point is that he received these pictures and then didn't report them to the police.

If you were sent indecent images of children then OF COURSE you would report this to the police. Huw Edwards did not.

If you read about the point in law with regards to this - it states that it is classed as creating images because every time it is shared or viewed then the victim is suffering again. The Times has a very good explainer about this.

While the use of the word "making" is confusing at first it does make sense.

Every time that an image is downloaded or sent to a different device then you are "making" a new copy of the image.

This is often used today instead of the charge of possession because somebody could delete the image from their device and so no longer be in possession of it.

But by downloading it they have made a new copy of the image even if they later delete it and "making" is the offence even if you've since deleted it.

Part of the police investigation is obviously a huge IT data haul and this provides information if image opened, how long looked at, sent to others etc.

If you received an image and shut it down ASAP and did not forward it onto anyone, this would be identified.

The aim.of investigations is to find the main players who makes distribute these abusive images. Frequent users of abuse lead them to these people.

OP, I’m not sure what school your children in but in my school they have a talk on this in year 7. A policeman came to the school and showed a video, explaining how it would be illegal to send and receive photos. Even as simple as boys sending photos with their tops off. All you can do is try and educate your DC, not to share any photos they may be sent, to delete them and in the case of more extreme photos, to report them.

I read that prior to them being sent he was actively engaging in a depraved WhatsApp discussion and was probably therefore seemed to be soliciting images. He also kept them saved on his phone and made no attempts to report the sender. There’s a wider context to his offending outside of just being ‘sent’ images. The average person receiving this sort of image would block the sender and report them to the police. They would not be deemed as having committed a crime

I haven’t read the thread but DS was sent some in appropriate images online. He has LD and is autistic and doesn’t really understand nuances so he told me about the cartoon images of women with huge boobs and when I was checking though there were some more worrying / borderline images which I won’t describe here.

I deleted them (because it felt disgusting to leave them) and called the police but they couldn’t do anything at all because I’d deleted the images and on PlayStation / Xbox there is no footprint like there is on a phone.

I’m sharing this information in case others find themselves in a similar situation

"If they delete it, it would be fine"

You are mistaken. The offence is usually charged as "making" (every time you download an image you are "making" a new copy) to avoid just this scenario.

Even if you have deleted an image you still made it when you downloaded it.

@user6876577657 thanks for sharing what happened in your family.

We thought we had our kids iPad settings watertight, but we hadn’t and DS was getting up in the night and watching YouTube. He had started to stray onto some weird content just served to him by the algorithm but it could have so easily been worse. It gave us a real shock about how quickly kids can drift onto wrong material. It’s a good reminder to be completely on top of all these apps and devices.

DD's school had an incident with a photo being received and shared and the school sent a letter home advising parents that the law treated this as the "distribution of child pornography".

Parents were advised to talk to their children about this issue to make it clear that you should never share a photo like that if you receive it. They were also advised to monitor their child's social media.

Unfortunately too many parents never check their child's phones, so have no idea what they are up to.

I said I thought there was probably more to it. Please reply more considerately

I think the law is quite clear - if you receive an image, and you report it immediately to the police you will not be prosecuted.

If you receive an image and delete it or ignore it or tell the other person you don't want it or any of a myriad of other actions that don't involve the police, you will be prosecuted but unlikely to be jailed (This is where both Huw and the Police woman were caught out- Huw received images and said "no" but didn't report, Police woman received images from her sister and realised if she reported her sister would also be prosecuted and likely jailed for passing them on so did nothing.)

Lastly if you asked for them, solicited them etc etc, prosecuted.

So with kids, make sure their phone isn't auto saving images from whatsapp, and make sure if they receive anything dubious they know to tell the police immediately - where many people get caught out (especially children) is they don't want to "tell" on their friends as that person will also be prosecuted.

FWIW I think Huw is "simply" gay, but has been massively caught out by trying to hide it and keep up a false image as a god fearing family man.

Thank you for sharing.

my kit is set up not to automatically download and save images. Yours should be too!

It's because by not reporting it, he was complicit in the abuse of children.

You're right in that it's so important to have conversations with dc about this element of online/ phone safety so they know what to do and how to keep themselves safe- even if the image has been created and sent by another child themselves. If your child receives something inappropriate under no circumstances should he show you or anyone else, he should TELL you what the content is and ask for help contacting police. If he shows you then he's distributed the image which could land him in hot water. As long as you're up front and open in these conversations and give your child clear messages of what constitutes an ii and what exactly they should do step by step if they have/ think they have received one then they'll be OK.

I've been hitting brick walls at work trying to get the social media team to understand the functions of WA and the responsibility to safeguard our followers and user groups.

I work for a health charity, and we have major issues around suicidal ideation etc. But according to them, WA isn't social media...

This to be honest. If someone sends you a CSA image you report it and block them. What you don't do it keep opening pics from them!

With your kids tell them not to forward anything they receive and tell you or school/college. I work with young people and this is a big issue. Sometimes people will approach me about something they've seen and I am very firm with telling them NOT to show it to me/send it to me - even if it's coming from a place of concern which it usually is - and I log it as a safeguarding incident and follow the appropriate process.

The person who sent the photos to Huw Edwards only received a 12 month) suspended sentence (which I find remarkable) so it would be imbalanced if Huw Edwards were to receive a harsher sentence

I think in the Hew Edwards case, he is an intelligent, world wise man and claiming naivety doesn't wash. In the case if your teenage son, you don't let them have a phone without first teaching them what to do if they receive images.

I mean, obviously children/ teenagers receiving pictures I can’t speak for, but as an adult; if I received anything even vaguely of this nature - I would go straight to the police. I don’t care who sent it/ the whys or the whatfor’s. There wouldn’t be an option to receive another SIX indecent images, the first would be more than enough for action to be taken.

'@Hazeby
Well, what would you do if you were sent such an image? I would delete it and report the sender to the police.

The trouble comes if you solicit an image, or save it, download it, view it multiple times, send it on. But I can’t imagine anyone who didn’t have a sexual interest in children doing any of that.'

Exactly!

Anyone who is randomly sent these type of pics by a troll would immediately report it. Especially someone in the public eye.

Of course the police had to prove that the pictures were solicited/welcomed and saved then watched by him.

And anyway he pleaded guilty...

the point about the policewoman was that her sister had sent them to her specifically because she was a police officer and the sister wanted her to investigate. The sister wasn't aware of the strict liability rules described in the Times article. Tbh it seems a bit harsh as she was doing it for the purposes of law enforcement. It would be like me finding a blood-stained knife outside my house, handing it in to the police, and being charged with being in possession of a bladed article. Understandably, the policewoman didn't want her sister prosecuted for this. I had every sympathy for her and am delighted she was exonerated.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-57501764

This is the case, there was no evidence that the message had been viewed but a criminal conviction followed.

Unsolicited photos have on occasion been sent via Instagram DM. They looked pornographic on examination of the thumbnail, but I didn’t expand them enough to check whether the female with her legs open was possibly under age or not. I just reported to the platform and blocked the sender. Should we all open them up and examine them properly or does that open us up to more accusations? Worried about all of this for my teenagers too.

You don’t need to worry about your teenagers sending grade A and B photos to anyone