My son can't stand his friend's younger sibling.....

[PrettyParrot]

...and this is a problem because they see each other a lot. Is there any way to handle this without causing irrevocable bad feeling between our families?

Backstory:
My DS1 is 13 and NT, DS2 is 12 and autistic. Both of them are friends with DF1, who is also 13. They have been friends since they were babies (DF's mum and I met at baby group) and all get along well. DF1 is very easy-going and placid, always polite, a joy to have around basically.

DF1 has a brother, who we shall call DF2. DF2 is 7 years younger than DF2 and is a nice child, but is also very high energy and tends to act up when he wants attention. This is not uncommon for little kids, but he is way more energetic than many. His parents (who we also get on with well) have previously expressed their own exhaustion in trying to keep up with him. I am fairly sure he has ADHD (other knowledgeable friends have supported this theory, having met him), which influences how I try to manage him when he comes over, and seems to be working ok so far. He is generally a nice kid apart from when he is on a wilful wind-up (which my own children are also guilty of sometimes).

The issue:
DS2 cannot STAND DF2. This has built over time and was somewhat inevitable given DS2's rigidity (which he can't help) and his awful temper (which he is strongly encouraged to at least try and rein in), plus DF2's tendency to latch onto anyone who gives him a reaction (classic little kid response, plus maybe a bit of sensation-seeking). DS2 is in no way an angel and needs to try harder, but he feels somewhat trapped by DF2 at times and is unable to work out how to respond without causing offence. We try to help him but it is undeniably delicate.

DF's mum and I now have very careful conversations where she politely lists the ways DS2 has behaved unpleasantly to DF2 (which DS2 definitely shouldn't be doing) or where I politely list the ways DF2 was challenging today (she does freely acknowledge that he can be hard work sometimes). A large part of the conflict is because DF2 gets upset that the big boys are leaving him out, and I must admit that a large part of my brain is saying"13yo boys and 6yos have NOTHING in common, why are you forcing them to interact so frequently" at such times (my childhood wasn't perfect but I didn't have to integrate my 7yo-younger sister into my social groups). I can't really say that without causing offence though.

Any advice on how to manage this between our families without falling out forever? My first idea is to stop DS2 from going to DF1's house at all, which I'm worried will come across as a bit confrontational, but he really struggles to handle interactions with DF2 and this seems like a way to reduce those....

Thanks for any help!

As you said 13 year old boys and 6 year old boys have nothing in common. It’s completely normal for them to not play together and find 6 year old annoying. Just as it’s normal for 6 year old to want to join in.

What the actual answer is normally parents would remind younger one that it’s older ones friends have come to play with him and that he needs to leave them alone, maybe get a 6 year old round of his to play with.

Yes sometimes they need to interact and play together but it shouldn’t be all the time.

Can’t you just agree with her and say yes, perhaps there’s a clash of personalities, shall we put a bit of distance between them. Then df2 stops coming to your house and ds2 stops going to theirs. DS2 can see df1 when he’s at your house. It’s not ideal but if neither of them can get over it, or play nice, it resolves the issue and a lot of stress.

So both children have Sen with behaviors that they ‘cannot help’. You Ds with his rigidity and temper (I’m sure you already know that that one needs dealing with) and the younger boy with his adhd traits.
You seem to be (as might be expected) more accepting of your own child’s issues.
You are correct that the age gap is the real issue here though. Do you purposely invite the 6 year old to yours?

I heard one of my Dds friends say she hated my DS - she never got in my house again!

If I was the other mum reading this I'd be really quite upset.
You've basically diagnosed her son with ADHD and said he is a nightmare to be around.
In your home it's for you to manage, you invite the older son and the 3 children hang out if that works best for you.
In their home, your son needs to learn manners and how to include the sibling if that is how they play there. If he can't do that, he shouldn't go.

I'm sure you are right and that our friends are horrified by him! He has been like this literally since birth, and there is a family history of it on my side; my mother was the same, my sister is similar. My husband and sons make fun of my explosive temper (I have one too, sadly) but I was considered the mild-mannered one in my house growing up :/ DS2 does need to get a grip on it, for sure (as my sister and I mostly have).

We have a bit of a mutual childcare strategy going on, so friend will invite my kids to her house and then ask if I'll take her two for a day at some point. So I do invite both boys over proactively on occasion, as it's my turn, but friend initiates more tbh.

DF2 isn't a nightmare - he can just take a lot of managing sometimes.

I've tried just inviting DF1 over and friend was upset that we were leaving DF2 out....

Regardless of any ND kids of this age gap are going to annoy each other teens do not want to hang out with 6 year olds

My husband has previously noted that I have given far more thought and time to anger management than he ever has, as I am very aware that I struggle with it. From that viewpoint, I can hopefully help DS2 quite a lot....

So it's actually mutual childcare. Then you have to take all the children each time. I'd stop it and find an alternative.

Why is your son being forced to spend time with an annoying brat?

Just keep them apart.
If you have to be around each other the child gets firmly told he isn't to go near your son.

If he doesn't listen well whatever happens after that is his fault.

Just wanted to say I do appreciate all replies. It sounds like keeping DS2 away from DF2 for a bit is the best option for both of them.

I am a bit worried friend will be affronted that the implication that we don't want to parent DS2 into being more tolerant of DF2. To be clear, I'd love it if DS2 could manage to cope with DF2 better and be kind and accommodating to him, and try my best to help DS2 to do so. I do tell him off when I see him deliberately being unfair (some behaviours he can control, others he can't - the parent's job is spotting the difference), but he clearly looks and feels trapped when interacting with DF2 sometimes, and I don;t know what to do with that other than just separating them.

Your son is more aggressive here, you need to find alternative childcare arrangements for him if he has a problem and you aren't helping him address such awful behaviour.

I agree that expecting a 6 year old to hang out with 13 year olds is not a great idea.

But. If I were the other mother I would not be allowing your 12 year old son around him.

Does your 12 year old still need childcare due to his autism?

I'm sure your 13 year old does not need childcare anymore.

Is it the case that she's 'looking after' your kids who don't need it in order to get babysitting for her 6 year old who does?

I think it would be better if she tried to find a similar arrangement with the parents of one of the little one's same age friends. Wouldn't that be more beneficial all round?

I appreciate it may be tricky to suggest this in which case I would keep your younger son at home when the older one visits their friend and just not invite the 6 year old to your house. Try to get it on more of a social footing, drop the 'childcare' aspect.

And what does losing your temper even mean? Have you been raised in an abusive family where screaming at people has been normalised? Because that can really skew people's ideas of what is acceptable behaviour.

Not only do 13 years olds not have much in common with 6 year olds, I wouldn't say it's appropriate for them to habitually hang around with an older sibling's friends. Obviously hanging out with your brother is one thing, but being with 13 year olds in a group will almost inevitably expose the 6 year old to things they don't need to know about. We deal with all sorts of issues where I teach with lower KS2 children (so older than 6) hanging around with children in Y7 or 8. I think the mother is being really unfair on her older son in expecting the brother to be included.

“DF2 isn't a nightmare - he can just take a lot of managing sometimes.

I've tried just inviting DF1 over and friend was upset that we were leaving DF2 out....”

You need to talk to your friend- and there might be a falling out- that for a while you can only have DF1 over as the age gap between the kids is becoming larger as they get older and they have less in common

They don't actually need childcare at all, honestly it would be easier for me to keep them home a lot of the time. She invites them over to keep her kids company I think. Having said that, it is sometimes nice to have the house to ourselves as adults, so we haven't exactly discouraged it. Perhaps this way of life is coming to a natural end though.

For clarity, DS2 isn't violent - he doesn't hit, punch etc (unless it's his older brother, and even then DS1 instigates it most times). He just gets really angry really quickly and shouts a lot. I too get angry very quickly, but have learned to leave as quickly as I can so as to prevent shouting.

I grew up in a house where our mother either shouted for hours (seriously) or hit us. I don't hit but struggle not to shout, I admit. I try very hard to say the minimum and then leave to cool off though.

I spent a lot of time with a lovely first boyfriend's family when I was 18 and they opened my eyes to what it's like to live in a house where your mother doesn't seem to hate you, put it that way :D when in doubt, I try to behave like old BF's mum. She was wonderful.

Have your children got friendships beyond what you as parents orchestrare between you. It sounds like it's more mutually beneficial for you and the other mum. These things usually drift at a certain age when it's no longer working for everyone. Things don't stay the same for ever and her youngest doesn't really fit into the friendship camp with the older boys. Younger siblings are usually a pain ,it's not unusual or really about everyone's additional needs.