My son can't stand his friend's younger sibling.....

[PrettyParrot]

...and this is a problem because they see each other a lot. Is there any way to handle this without causing irrevocable bad feeling between our families?

Backstory:
My DS1 is 13 and NT, DS2 is 12 and autistic. Both of them are friends with DF1, who is also 13. They have been friends since they were babies (DF's mum and I met at baby group) and all get along well. DF1 is very easy-going and placid, always polite, a joy to have around basically.

DF1 has a brother, who we shall call DF2. DF2 is 7 years younger than DF2 and is a nice child, but is also very high energy and tends to act up when he wants attention. This is not uncommon for little kids, but he is way more energetic than many. His parents (who we also get on with well) have previously expressed their own exhaustion in trying to keep up with him. I am fairly sure he has ADHD (other knowledgeable friends have supported this theory, having met him), which influences how I try to manage him when he comes over, and seems to be working ok so far. He is generally a nice kid apart from when he is on a wilful wind-up (which my own children are also guilty of sometimes).

The issue:
DS2 cannot STAND DF2. This has built over time and was somewhat inevitable given DS2's rigidity (which he can't help) and his awful temper (which he is strongly encouraged to at least try and rein in), plus DF2's tendency to latch onto anyone who gives him a reaction (classic little kid response, plus maybe a bit of sensation-seeking). DS2 is in no way an angel and needs to try harder, but he feels somewhat trapped by DF2 at times and is unable to work out how to respond without causing offence. We try to help him but it is undeniably delicate.

DF's mum and I now have very careful conversations where she politely lists the ways DS2 has behaved unpleasantly to DF2 (which DS2 definitely shouldn't be doing) or where I politely list the ways DF2 was challenging today (she does freely acknowledge that he can be hard work sometimes). A large part of the conflict is because DF2 gets upset that the big boys are leaving him out, and I must admit that a large part of my brain is saying"13yo boys and 6yos have NOTHING in common, why are you forcing them to interact so frequently" at such times (my childhood wasn't perfect but I didn't have to integrate my 7yo-younger sister into my social groups). I can't really say that without causing offence though.

Any advice on how to manage this between our families without falling out forever? My first idea is to stop DS2 from going to DF1's house at all, which I'm worried will come across as a bit confrontational, but he really struggles to handle interactions with DF2 and this seems like a way to reduce those....

Thanks for any help!

I completely agree. The friends' mum sounds a bit odd. Surely it's perfectly reasonable and normal for teenagers not to want a 7 year old tagging along. What part of that doesn't she understand. I assume it's just an easier option for her. Hasn't this child got friends of his own anyway?

It’s all being over complicated surely? The older lads should be able to have their own friendship outside interfering mums and annoying younger siblings? Dont understand why this is an issue?

Just stop allowing your ds2 to tag along with his older brother.

To be honest if I was the friends mum I would be a bit pissed off that you kept sending your ds2 over.

Maybe you should say to the mum that these younger two don't get along and it would just be better to leave the older boys to it

Can the teens go into the shopping centre together for a few hours where the 6yr old obviously can't go with them?
Could you entertain the 6yr old (bake a cake etc) at yours if you babysit, so the older boys can play without him - what can he actively do if he comes round that isn't just tagging after them?

She actively specifies both of my boys in the invitation but OK 😂

If you don't need the childcare yourself I'd just suggest that the boys arrange their own social life and if she specifically needs childcare for the 7 year old she can ask for this directly and it can be done without pretending it's a play date. At 12 and 13 they should be more than able to arrange a trip to the park etc.

Then just say no the youngest two don't get along.

You said yourself that your youngest dislikes the other child. Why do you send him?

Because up until now I honestly thought that DS2 could manage to cope with DF2. It turns out he cannot any longer, so we need to change things. I've also held back slightly from saying "My son has chosen not to come over at all because of your child" because well, you'd avoid saying that, wouldn't you (and that really is the only reason)

The age gap is massive so unless they particularly get on it’s rubbish to push them together. Possibly the boy struggles with friends his own age?

Do the boys have each others mobile phone numbers and so WhatsApp to organise their own meet ups?

Tell your son to immediately leave and return home if he’s feeling too irritated by the boy. He needs to have a plan for what to do. As long as he texts you and there’s a key hidden in your garden it should be fine.

You could always say ‘DS2 isn’t coming over, he’s got other plans today’.

Poor DF1, he should be allowed hang out with friends his own age without his little brother tagging along. I was in his shoes and honestly I still keep my sibling at a distance 30 years on. It's ridiculous of parents to carry on like this.

I think you need to be nicely honest with the mum. Invite DF1 over, when she complains about you leaving DF2 out, just say that the age gap is causing trouble as the older ones hit their teens so you think it better to just allow the older ones to hang out.

You ve actually managed to keep this going longer than usual I'd say. You have to just bite the bullet and say something like this, you don't need to go into all the reasons s, the boys are growing up and growing apart and that's normal.

Someone shouting a lot can also be really unpleasant so you do need to try and help him with this.

Surely the people that like to spend time together do so and the ones that do not, don't? Stop trying to force a square peg into a round hole, you may have all got on when they were babies, but they're not babies any more. See your friend as an adult, if you have a friendship outside of your kids and the kids that get on can see each other in a way that works. You can't all move mob handed forever, especially with this age difference and "personality clash".

Things change.

It absolutely is especially when it comes from adults towards a child!

Half the time I am there when they are all together, because I'm hosting :/

When I see DS2 getting wound up by DF2, I separate them, order DS2 to go away and be angry elsewhere, and do my best to distract DF2. Not always easy as he wants to be where the big boys are and thus resists.... I do proactively try to entertain him but he often just runs off to do something else.

Sounds like a barrel of laughs op. Surely the very simple solution is to accept they have all (bar the 6 year old) moved on a stage - let the older lads coordinate their own meet ups you stay out of it and meet the mum separately. Your days of family play dates are over.

Sounds like the adults are setting the kids up to fail, frankly, by putting them in an impractical situation.

Why are you expecting a 13yo and 12yo to hang out with a 7yo? It’s ridiculous. If you’ve agreed to provide free childcare for the 7yo, do that yourself rather than expecting your children to do it. It’s not mutual childcare because your kids don't actually need childcare.

You should have done a "this doesn't work for us, sorry"

absolutely ages ago

I think you know this and are just agonising over the awkwardness

Bite the bullet