My son can't stand his friend's younger sibling.....

[PrettyParrot]

...and this is a problem because they see each other a lot. Is there any way to handle this without causing irrevocable bad feeling between our families?

Backstory:
My DS1 is 13 and NT, DS2 is 12 and autistic. Both of them are friends with DF1, who is also 13. They have been friends since they were babies (DF's mum and I met at baby group) and all get along well. DF1 is very easy-going and placid, always polite, a joy to have around basically.

DF1 has a brother, who we shall call DF2. DF2 is 7 years younger than DF2 and is a nice child, but is also very high energy and tends to act up when he wants attention. This is not uncommon for little kids, but he is way more energetic than many. His parents (who we also get on with well) have previously expressed their own exhaustion in trying to keep up with him. I am fairly sure he has ADHD (other knowledgeable friends have supported this theory, having met him), which influences how I try to manage him when he comes over, and seems to be working ok so far. He is generally a nice kid apart from when he is on a wilful wind-up (which my own children are also guilty of sometimes).

The issue:
DS2 cannot STAND DF2. This has built over time and was somewhat inevitable given DS2's rigidity (which he can't help) and his awful temper (which he is strongly encouraged to at least try and rein in), plus DF2's tendency to latch onto anyone who gives him a reaction (classic little kid response, plus maybe a bit of sensation-seeking). DS2 is in no way an angel and needs to try harder, but he feels somewhat trapped by DF2 at times and is unable to work out how to respond without causing offence. We try to help him but it is undeniably delicate.

DF's mum and I now have very careful conversations where she politely lists the ways DS2 has behaved unpleasantly to DF2 (which DS2 definitely shouldn't be doing) or where I politely list the ways DF2 was challenging today (she does freely acknowledge that he can be hard work sometimes). A large part of the conflict is because DF2 gets upset that the big boys are leaving him out, and I must admit that a large part of my brain is saying"13yo boys and 6yos have NOTHING in common, why are you forcing them to interact so frequently" at such times (my childhood wasn't perfect but I didn't have to integrate my 7yo-younger sister into my social groups). I can't really say that without causing offence though.

Any advice on how to manage this between our families without falling out forever? My first idea is to stop DS2 from going to DF1's house at all, which I'm worried will come across as a bit confrontational, but he really struggles to handle interactions with DF2 and this seems like a way to reduce those....

Thanks for any help!

Leave it to the 13 year olds to sort out seeing each other themselves. Can't they meet at the park?
Sounds like a lot of stress when you don't actually need childcare.

If the 6 year old wasn't there you won't need to supervise. She's totally taking the Micky!

It sounds like you have a historic mutual childcare arrangement and have been approaching issues from this perspective.

However what you really have now is 3 teen boys who don't need childcare and enjoy hanging out together + one 6 year old.

I would be trying to shift your friend from seeing this as childcare with a lot of comments about teens and 6 yr olds not having a lot in common. And encouraging the other 3 to spontaneously arrange their own meetups which could be at either house, online, in the park but with a lot less mum arranging it.

If you are feeling kind you could do childcare for the 6 yr old but friend would need to understand that is what it was, not a bunch of multi-age kids playing together.

It's a bizarre arrangement when you don't need the reciprocal child care. Surely your 13yo can just message his DF and invite him over or meet up. Why do you and the other mum need to be involved at all.

The only person seemingly benefitting from this is the other mum who gets free child care for her 6yo. How did this even start? I have a 9 year old and a 3 year old and I can't imagine a scenario when I send the little one on a play date with the big one. Even if they were invited I'd politely decline as they are much harder to supervise than the older ones and obviously have different interests.

Just tell her this arrangement isn't working for you and the older children can organise their own meet ups but you won't be available to supervise her child

Of course 13 year old boys don't want to play with a 6 year old!

Is she expecting them to?

I really feel for DS2 who is being put in the position of being the one who has the problem because he can't tolerate PITA younger child. If you can't manage the youngest effectively he can't visit. Its not fair on your own child.

On balance I agree with you. Having said that, as an autistic person myself, I do think DS2 needs to get at least some training in dealing with other people who wind him up (I had a lot of it, unwanted of course, but it has been useful to me in the long run).

This experience has been good for that, but I think we may have reached the end of his tolerance. That's OK and now we need to change approach.

Of course but I'm sure his brother winds him up,you must get on his nerves,school peers as well. He doesn't need engineered situations to provide these opportunities.

Yes - mine have an almost 8 year gap. I never expected DS1 and friends to include DS2. She’s being ridiculous. She needs to invite a friend round for her DS2 or keep DS2 down with the two of you so the older 3 can chill out together.

Resurrecting this thread for some advice.

Friend had my two for a sleepover last weekend when I went away, which I was very grateful for. During that sleepover, my DS2 was sitting on camp bed in DF1's room, playing on laptop; DF1, my DS1 and DS2 were all in there, all absorbed by their devices. DF2 apparently ran in and started jumping on DS2 and his laptop.

Friend tells it as 'DF2 ran in and jumped on DS2, who then hit him'. DS2 tells it as 'DF2 ran in and started jumping on me and my laptop, so I pushed him in the stomach to get him away'. I suspect DS2 panicked tbh, as he is devoted to his laptop. DF2 then ran away crying to let his mum know he'd been hit.

I don't know how to advise DS2 here, other than to freeze, not defend himself/his belongings and to yell for the parents as loudly as he can. DS2 is reluctant to do this as he thinks it is making a fuss, which admittedly it is, but the alternative is to be in the wrong for defending himself (as the big kid will always be in the wrong when using force against smaller). I'm sure he could have handled it better but do understand why he responded the way he did.

I've reached out to the mum to ask what the best way is to proceed, because all I can think of is to tell my son to let it happen (while calling for help which won't come immediately, because it's a big house) and that feels really Not OK. She hasn't replied yet, which I understand really because it's not an easy one to solve.

Any advice/commiseration/stern words of truth you vipers can offer would be very welcome. And yes, I know the easiest one is just to not do sleepovers any more... working on it!!

Really you just need to keep DS2 at home. It's not his friendship and it's a stressful situation for him. Your friend isn't going to be proactively parenting the younger child in a way that will guarantee he can't get at DS2 in her own home, and neither can you really expect her to - he's not a toddler. The only thing she can do is tell DF2 off after the fact. And yes, DS2 shouldn't really be pushing him but the adults shouldn't be putting him in this situation to begin with.

That would be my thinking too!

@Pumpkindoodles

Sorry for some reason I can't edit my post above and only just realised it's an old thread🙇🏻‍♀️🙇🏻‍♀️🙇🏻‍♀️

I’m responding to your most recent post, not the one from last summer. I think really this just shows that using her for childcare isn’t going to work. After last summer, you realised that the mutual play dates weren’t working any more. This sleepover wasn’t any different - just because (essentially) you needed it as childcare (ie your own situation was different) doesn’t mean DF2 was going to act differently or DS2 was going to respond differently.

im sympathetic and if it were a side taking situation, I’d be on DS2s side because he’s not the one who starts it, (although I understand DF2 maybe can’t help it either) but really it doesn’t matter - the adults need to stop putting them in a position that they can’t handle. If DF2s mum needed to have DS2 round then it would be on her to manage her sons behaviour but in this instance it sounds like she was doing you a favour so…..ds2 reacting badly is the consequence of you sending him there.

I sound like I’m telling you off - I don’t mean it that way, I’m trying to write about the logic of the situation.

I feel for you, I have a DD similar to DS2.

Oh I completely agree, and appreciate the support. I separated from my husband (their dad) a few months back and this is a one-off trip booked before that happened, so in principle it would have been better to just not go. But childcare was available, at least in theory, so....

I did have DF1 and DF2 at my place the preceding weekend (in the interests of fair reciprocation) and we had no such incidents, so I may have been unduly optimistic.

The thing is, he IS friends with DF1, proper friends. It's a bit of a shame from that respect :(

You need to keep it just to the two actual friends not siblings.

Having now read the full thread and your most recent post...

I think you need to stick to what you decided last summer and only have DS1 and DF1 having sleepovers, DF2 Just wants to play with the big boys and if your friend isn't able or willing to stop him getting in DS2's face then it's just not going to work, DF2 might just be being typical of his age, but he sounds very bloody annoying & he's obviously quite demanding when he's at your house as well

Obviously, at the moment, neither DS2 nor DF 2 can deal with the situation, so don't create it.

Only thing you could do is talk to your friend and if it's just a fun sleepover only include the eldest 2, but if you need childcare then agree to much more closely supervise DS2 and DF2

Well, as he himself agreed last summer, him not going to their house and only seeing DF1 is the most workable solution, yeah, it's not perfect but your friends have a much younger child who wants to join in, but his behaviour frustrates DS2 (understandably) so him staying away from their house seems like the best solution. And you only agreed to have DF2 if your friend actually needs childcare at which point you need to be responsible for keeping him away from DF2 in his own house.

What do you want to happen? Would you like the mother to send away the younger child when your son visits? Put him outside in the shed?

If my son was afraid of dogs, I wouldn't send him to a house with a dog,, especially a poorly-behaved untrained one. But I wouldn't expect the owner to send their dog away either. My son just wouldn't go.

Why is this child different? Your son can't stand him and is on edge around him. The mother can't control the child in a way that makes the situation work for your DS2. And it's not entirely her fault either. The reality of a young child with potential ADHD is going to be a long, hard road of child doing annoying things, parents correcting and hopefully child eventually improves. In the meantime, the advice I would give that mother, were she asking for it, would be to focus on her own child and limit situations that trigger aggro and stress. I give the same advice to you.

Not sure the shed solution is fair on him 😂tbf I agree with your point.

The mum has got back to me now and basically said to draw a line under it, but that my son mustn't hit hers. That's fair. My position is that a 7.5yo should perhaps be more reliable in terms of not getting into such situations or jumping on visitors, but I did not voice this as I'm aware that it's a more niche opinion!

Thanks for the support all, it has been helpful.

I have 4 children, age 13,12,6 and 5, although they all get on I would absolutely NOT expect the older children’s friends to play with the younger ones when they are here. I am more than happy for all of the older ones to go off and do something while the younger ones do something else! I’m lucky as I have 2 younger ones so they aren’t left in their own but if I did only have one I would entertain the younger ones myself and find something for us to do while the older ones do their thing.