I don’t understand the Charlotte Dujardin furore….

[VivaLaSpag]

For transparency, I know absolutely nothing about horses but have seen this all blow up so am trying to understand the context and concern. In no way am I saying what she has done is right.

My question is, aren’t horses whipped to the finish line in horse races? If this is a routine practice then why is there such concern about what Dujardin has done?

She whipped a horse across its legs to make it step higher in dressage, a totally unnatural activity for a horse. The equivalent of making them appear in a circus.
The hours are flown all over the world to perform for their riders to get the glory they want.
I’d have horse racing and all animal performing banned. And maybe Dujardin would like a whip across her legs 24 times so she knows how it feels?

The reason why this has caused such outrage is not only because it’s cruel, unnecessary, pointless and stupid. Charlotte has built a whole brand about how kind and progressive she is with her horses. She treats them more like normal horses than most high end competition horses - they get to go out in fields and hack out in the countryside and people admire that sort of ethos. The assumption is that she is kind to her horses and they love her. That she’s found a new way of treating her horses and still achieving the highest level results and that others can follow her lead.

For a lot of people, to find out that she is worse than most people would ever imagine and that the casual way that she punishes this horse shows that this might just be how she trains rather than a one off is incredibly shocking. This isn’t the first time there have been questions about the way she treats her horses - but this can’t be brushed off and that’s why I think the timing is absolutely perfect. Maximum impact to stop her. The silence from other top riders is deafening though

she deserves to lose everything. I’m glad her sponsors are dropping her.

Please watch "Earthlings", for those who care about animal-human interaction in all it's forms.

One theory of the relationship between horse and man is that on some level, horses "knew" that if they complied with man, they stood a better chance of not being eaten. So they started to comply, and be a help, and allowed man to sit astride them (where they cannot even see), and they were kept safe from mountain lions and other predators (they also evolved to be fast, so that they could run, rather than fight).

But that relationship has been taken to the extreme, and the video of what is, let's face t, probably common practice - sadly, is a perfect example of just how people treat an animal that has complied, and been willing - and has still been. literally, used and abused.

True.

And that’s actually the issue here too. Now the Olympics include professional athletes money comes into it too. There are sponsors, owners of horses - so much pressure to stay at the top. And the horse becomes a commodity.

I actually think top level dressage has had its day. It’s known for a lot of bad practices to achieve the top level movements. Charlotte and her friend Carl were meant to have been a breath of fresh air because they allowed their horses a much more natural lifestyle. But now that’s been smashed (still praying Carl is genuine!).

At least Britain had the decency to drop her.
The Netherlands are still taking a convicted rapist in their team. He served ONE year for raping a child.
https://metro.co.uk/2024/07/23/olympics-boss-defends-decision-take-convicted-rapist-paris-2024-21280978/

I cannot ever support a country that glorifies a rapist even if they consider he’s served his ridiculously short sentence.

To be honest if it meant better outcomes for horse welfare I wouldn’t care if equestrianism was dropped from the olympics entirely.

I’m an equestrian. I actually think it should be. I follow Eventing. It’s a lower level at the Olympics (than other top level events) so that less good nations can send a team. You see people riding there that really shouldn’t. And dressage has always been surrounded by rumoured nasty training practices (rollkur for example) even before this (Charlotte was supposed to have been one of the good trainers!). And then there was pentathlon- which thankfully has dropped the equine section after the outrage at the bad riding last time.

Quite, and you're forgetting the bit where the Dutch Olympic Committee made sure this got out at exactly the right moment to take the heat off their paedophile beach volleyball player. As I said, conspiracy bollocks.

The horse can only work with what it's got. It should be running free with its horse mates, not prancing about on telly 🤷

Because they're engorged with milk and uncomfortable, due to having their calves who would normally be suckling the milk, taken away, so the milk can be sold to adults of a different species?

You absolutely can make a horse do things it doesn’t want to, through force and fear, and you can see this any day, anywhere in the world.

I hope for a day when animal participation in all sport is outlawed.
I did read that NL gave banned puppy yoga because dogs are not allowed work under 12 months and that is considered work. Was pleased to see that.

I read that dressage is a formalised version of the exuberant movements you can observe in foals as they play in groups (lots of exaggerated trotting, spinning, leaping etc). Those who say prancing is "unnatural" to horses have never seen a stallion catch the scent of an in-season mare in the next field.

Dressage needs to take a long hard look at itself fi it wants to convince the public it takes horsemanship and welfare seriously.

Because they don’t get to eat to food they want unless they are milked.

It's unnatural to have a human sitting on their back while they prance. It's an example of the horrible tendency (some) humans have to see something beautiful in nature, and not to be able to leave ot alone, but to think it's ok to take what they want and control it, or cage it. Like pinning and mounting butterflies.

Everything we do to horses is unnatural; fencing them in, tying them up, gelding, shoeing, riding, work in harness, vetinerary treatment. Mostly I think humans get the balance right. In some elite sports it's gone wrong and needs to be acknowledged and put right.

But on the other hand we stop riding all horses and then they just run free.. where?
With no vet care, no physio, no dental or hoof care, herd fighting and die a painful death from injuries
They will suffer more like that

Imagine turning all dogs loose and leaving them to get on with it

The alternative is not to abandon all the existing horses that are in the system already. It would be to stop keeping any new horses and just gradually phase it all out.

There was an incident in the Netherlands where animal rights activists let about 20 ponies out of their field so they could be free. They got onto a motorway. 13 died, people were injured, it was horrendous. Right or wrong, we have domesticated animals. We can't undo that, we can only take responsibility and look after them properly.

That would mean losing most types of horse, because their natural environment is no longer available in sufficient measure to sustain a healthy population.

Yes the keeping of animals would have to be gradually phased out, releasing domesticated animals into the "wild" is a terrible, stupid thing to do

Yes I realise that. Humans have really fucked up the natural balance of things, sadly

Just because things we do with domesticated animals is unatural, they ARE domesticated. Even their very behaviour and body language is altered by domestication.

Unfortunately animal rights activist doesn't always equate to being at all knowledgeable about animal welfare and behaviour. There are extremists on both sides.

I'm not defending Charlotte for what the video shows - it is indefensible.

But many countries are letting riders who have been found to be guilty of far worse compete.

Equestrians are quickly heading towards losing their social licence to compete. I'm kinda looking forward to that, as a lot of horse cruelty is related to competition.

I think people have a very romanticised view of how things were back in the good old days when humanity lived in balance with nature though. It wasn't great. Domestication of animals isn't a black and white issue.