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Labour suspends seven MPs over two-child benefit cap

201 replies

EasterIssland · 23/07/2024 22:54

Several labour mps have voted in favour of snps request to remove the 2 child benefit cap and now they’ve* *had the whip suspended for six month.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c978m6z3egno

not the best beginning for this new government

Rebecca Long-Bailey and John McDonnell

Labour suspends seven rebel MPs over two-child benefit cap

The government comfortably won the vote despite growing pressure from some of its own MPs to scrap the policy.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c978m6z3egno

OP posts:
Emmanuelll · 24/07/2024 10:28

When Labour were in power last time, 9 out of 10 families were entitled to tax credits and I didn’t see any of them complaining.

The previous brainwashing from the last Conservative government about blaming the poor for everything is going to take a while for people to unlearn, clearly.

SerendipityJane · 24/07/2024 10:30

Didn't they find that the bottom 20 percent of families very often had a disabled family member?

I think they did. Then someone put them on a flag and it was all OK.

DancingPhantomsOnTheTerrace · 24/07/2024 12:21

I really don’t understand why a 3 line whip was necessary when labour has such a large majority. I’d have thought it better to wait for something significant.

It wasn't a three line whip on this issue as such. It was an amendment to the king's speech, and under any PM, MPs wouldn't expect to be able to vote for another party's amendment to the king's speech and keep the whip.

robovacsareepic · 24/07/2024 12:22

I see Martin Lewis's open letter to chancellor (on X) includes a campaign on carer's allowance being a cliff edge where you lose the £81.90 if you earn a penny over £151 per week...

It's a massive disincentive to trying to increase your hours at work.

Windchiming · 24/07/2024 12:45

EasterIssland · 23/07/2024 22:54

Several labour mps have voted in favour of snps request to remove the 2 child benefit cap and now they’ve* *had the whip suspended for six month.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c978m6z3egno

not the best beginning for this new government

Wish they had a money tree to give everyone what they want and need, fix NHS, salary increase for the doctors and nurses, more staff so reduce waiting, better salaries for teacher, more teachers, unlimited number of children supported, hire more police, fund public services, youth program, take all immigrants and provide them good accommodation, housing for everyone without cutting a tree and no increase in tax, definitely not private school, and let's not forget jobs for all. I mean you dont need a political leader for that, you need a marvel comic hero for that. No government can please everyone after the country was allowed to self sabotage for 14 years. They don't have that kind of money and people are not very patient. Maybe he is aiming to do this in stages, maybe he will remove child cap when he has sorted other problems and found ways tp generate income for the country.

DramaLlamaBangBang · 24/07/2024 12:50

robovacsareepic · 24/07/2024 12:22

I see Martin Lewis's open letter to chancellor (on X) includes a campaign on carer's allowance being a cliff edge where you lose the £81.90 if you earn a penny over £151 per week...

It's a massive disincentive to trying to increase your hours at work.

I would agree with this. If we are going to spend £3bn on anything, it should be amending this. Those Labour MP's time would be better spent campaigning for this. It's not even doing mire hours at work. If you get a pay rise, you lose it.

robovacsareepic · 24/07/2024 12:56

It causes problems in both directions - you'll have pt working carers not claiming the £81.90 pw because of fear of hitting the earnings cliff, and carers claiming the £81.90 constantly stressed about making sure they are within the earnings limit rather than doing as much work as they can.

Martin Lewis is bloody awesome and Reeves should meet with him. His letter is excellent.

Sorry I couldn't see a thread on this specifically and v relevant to child poverty

Jollylollylee · 24/07/2024 12:58

The previous brainwashing from the last Conservative government about blaming the poor for everything is going to take a while for people to unlearn, clearly.

I mostly blame greedy huge companies, corrupt incompetent politicians, the practice of selling off social housing stock without replacing them , and large foreign “property investors” basically money laundering by buying up huge swathes of apartments which lies empty in London, among other things actually.

However, there is an issue with too many out of full-time work, and also people even in full-time work needing to rely on benefits which is partly linked to low pay and high rent . It’s not necessarily the fault of the individual, but it needs to be addressed.

When Labour were in power last time, 9 out of 10 families were entitled to tax credits and I didn’t see any of them complaining.

Really? That many? I wonder how many single person households/couples without kids got them? Not many I’d imagine as me and majority of my friends certainly never - and I wasn’t earning more than 25K pre 2010.

maybe people weren’t complaining because public services and the NHS wasn’t in such a state and the economy seemed to be doing much better? When everything is now in shambles and wages are barely rising of course people are going to want to look closer at benefits.

muddyford · 24/07/2024 13:08

A better use of Government time and money would be to make it impossible for non-resident, non-contributing parents to avoid financial responsibility for their offspring.

ilovesooty · 24/07/2024 13:19

whataclownshow · 23/07/2024 23:45

It's not outrageous. It's parliamentary whip procedure.

And those MPs knew that a 3 line Whip for the King's Speech is standard procedure. I don't like the cap but lifting it immediately wasn't in the manifesto these MPs stood under.

One of them is my MP and I'm beyond furious with him. I voted for a Labour MP not one who's going to be sitting as an Independent MP for a minimum period of six months. If I'd wanted an Independent MP I'd have voted for one.

Having spoken to my local councillor this morning I've discovered he didn't even tell the councillors he was going to defy the Whip.

StripedPiggy · 24/07/2024 13:24

Northernlassie1974 · 24/07/2024 06:51

As someone working in an area of high deprivation, scrapping the two child cap will do very little to improve things for children living in poverty IMO.

I work with families where the children are dripping in labelled clothing, Range Rover outside the house, lashes, Botox, fillers and nails on point, term time holidays abroad etc yet I’m providing food parcels as they are up their eyes in Klarna/debt. In many of the cases they have maximum benefits, DLA, child benefit also. The money isn’t being budgeted and priorities are wrong. In many of these households, nobody works or, if they do, they don’t dare work any further as their benefits will be worse off.

Scrapping the two child limit will just encourage families to continue having children (which is what happened before it was put in place).

Better minimum wage, making it pay to work rather than be on benefits and encouraging people back into work will improve poverty.

Provide free childcare to families in the lowest paid bracket so they can work.

Unpopular opinion I know, but, in my view, changing benefits to vouchers or similar that can only be spent on food, low cost (not branded) clothing etc would also go a long way to improving poverty for our children and encourage people into work.

My husband and I both work full time. We have to budget to the penny, we wouldn’t dream of having more than two children as we know financially that would be very difficult. We shop mainly in supermarkets, have a budget car and are unlikely to afford a summer holiday abroad as we can only go in school holidays which we simply can’t afford.

I’m all for helping those in need, and for the tax taken off me to go towards this, but, in not all but many cases, it’s not being used effectively.

Im not political at all, but, so far, generally, Starmer has priorities right.

Excellent post. Very, very well said. This Labour voter agrees with every word.

TheWhalrus · 24/07/2024 13:27

My understanding was that labour didn't want to commit to ending the cap but is committed to bringing children out of poverty but not necessarily in this way...presumably either because they can't be certain of affording removing the cap, or they prefer to disincentivize low-income households from having loads of children. I also note that these 7 MPs are mostly part of the hard left of the labour party and might have been seeking a chance to lay down a mark on the new regime anyway.

Noescapefromtheidiots · 24/07/2024 13:41

I'm not totally against a cap though, or perhaps I feel there needs to be some form of limit. I think my neighbour having her 9th child under 12 this week whilst neither her or her partner work (presumably don't have the time) has marred my view.

There is something you don't know about this family. You're judging without having all the facts. The partner isn't not in work just because he's father to 9 DC and doesn't have time! That's not acceptable in the rules. So either he's looking but can't find work because he's unemployable in some way, or he doesn't have to work because he's too unwell or because he's a carer for someone. She's not working because her youngest is too young so she doesn't have to, but that will change as she stops having DC and her youngest ages out of this category. Either that or perhaps they've won the lottery/inherited a huge wad, are living off that and people are just assuming they're on benefits because they're not working.

Overall I'm pleased with the things Labour are doing since they came to power. With the country being in such a mess, they have to be focused and hit the ground running to prove they can fix things otherwise people might not vote for them in the next election. They only have a few years to show significant improvements. Not just for their own sake but for the sake of the country and the people living in it. They don't have time to argue amongst themselves right now.

Brookbondorangelabel · 24/07/2024 13:49

So literally the most principled and only left leaning Labour MPs have had the whip suspended colour me stunned. Welcome to your Tory 2.0 government deep in the pockets of big business and billionaires. Do you know it’s a fact that since he has been leader of the Labour Party Starmer has accepted over £43,000 worth of gifts and freebies from big business including one of the largest gambling companies?

The only thing Jeremy Corbyn ever accepted was free entry to Glastonbury because he has been invited to talk there. Unlike Starmer he couldn’t be bought and they destroyed him because of that.

As they say we get the leaders we deserve.

whataclownshow · 24/07/2024 13:54

Brookbondorangelabel · 24/07/2024 13:49

So literally the most principled and only left leaning Labour MPs have had the whip suspended colour me stunned. Welcome to your Tory 2.0 government deep in the pockets of big business and billionaires. Do you know it’s a fact that since he has been leader of the Labour Party Starmer has accepted over £43,000 worth of gifts and freebies from big business including one of the largest gambling companies?

The only thing Jeremy Corbyn ever accepted was free entry to Glastonbury because he has been invited to talk there. Unlike Starmer he couldn’t be bought and they destroyed him because of that.

As they say we get the leaders we deserve.

Well he was quite happy to be "bought" by Iranian state TV.

Flatbellyfella · 24/07/2024 14:20

Herr Starmer not such a charmer now in many peoples eyes after voting for him.

AvrielFinch · 24/07/2024 14:29

@Flatbellyfella How clever to call names. Grow up.

ilovesooty · 24/07/2024 14:30

Flatbellyfella · 24/07/2024 14:20

Herr Starmer not such a charmer now in many peoples eyes after voting for him.

I voted for a Labour Party led by Keir Starmer and I think his actions here are right.

GonnaeNoDaeThatJustGonnaeNo · 24/07/2024 14:32

Labour have done the right thing here. KS needs to establish his authority and get them disciplined.

These MPs stood on a Labour manifesto and Labour paid all their campaign expenses and worked to get them elected. Going rogue and voting against the whip within a few weeks is self-indulgent hard left twattery.

PS I actually would prefer the lifting of the two child limit

GonnaeNoDaeThatJustGonnaeNo · 24/07/2024 14:32

Flatbellyfella · 24/07/2024 14:20

Herr Starmer not such a charmer now in many peoples eyes after voting for him.

What's with the German title? Are you attempting some kind of ethnic slur?

SerendipityJane · 24/07/2024 14:47

This is just a really annoyed media backlash. These past 14 years they have become fat on lazy stories gifted to them by the supremely incompetent parade of Tory leaders who happily and haplessly left MPs to rebel and flick the Vs and generally get away with disgraceful behaviour. You can hardly blame them for thinking this is a story they could milk till Christmas to avoid doing any real journalism.

Instead, within minutes of the rebellion, Starmer has acted and that is that. These 7 turncoats are now very much on their own and unable to cause more damage. If ever there was a clear signal that this is not a rerun of the last Tory government, then here it is.

EasternStandard · 24/07/2024 14:53

SerendipityJane · 24/07/2024 14:47

This is just a really annoyed media backlash. These past 14 years they have become fat on lazy stories gifted to them by the supremely incompetent parade of Tory leaders who happily and haplessly left MPs to rebel and flick the Vs and generally get away with disgraceful behaviour. You can hardly blame them for thinking this is a story they could milk till Christmas to avoid doing any real journalism.

Instead, within minutes of the rebellion, Starmer has acted and that is that. These 7 turncoats are now very much on their own and unable to cause more damage. If ever there was a clear signal that this is not a rerun of the last Tory government, then here it is.

Tbf it was the SNP vote that has ended the media cycles. Labour MPs can’t now call for the policy, bar seven who got / get a morning slot to talk about it,

For those who prefer the media to move on the vote is a good way to do it

HJ40 · 24/07/2024 14:53

Northernlassie1974 · 24/07/2024 06:51

As someone working in an area of high deprivation, scrapping the two child cap will do very little to improve things for children living in poverty IMO.

I work with families where the children are dripping in labelled clothing, Range Rover outside the house, lashes, Botox, fillers and nails on point, term time holidays abroad etc yet I’m providing food parcels as they are up their eyes in Klarna/debt. In many of the cases they have maximum benefits, DLA, child benefit also. The money isn’t being budgeted and priorities are wrong. In many of these households, nobody works or, if they do, they don’t dare work any further as their benefits will be worse off.

Scrapping the two child limit will just encourage families to continue having children (which is what happened before it was put in place).

Better minimum wage, making it pay to work rather than be on benefits and encouraging people back into work will improve poverty.

Provide free childcare to families in the lowest paid bracket so they can work.

Unpopular opinion I know, but, in my view, changing benefits to vouchers or similar that can only be spent on food, low cost (not branded) clothing etc would also go a long way to improving poverty for our children and encourage people into work.

My husband and I both work full time. We have to budget to the penny, we wouldn’t dream of having more than two children as we know financially that would be very difficult. We shop mainly in supermarkets, have a budget car and are unlikely to afford a summer holiday abroad as we can only go in school holidays which we simply can’t afford.

I’m all for helping those in need, and for the tax taken off me to go towards this, but, in not all but many cases, it’s not being used effectively.

Im not political at all, but, so far, generally, Starmer has priorities right.

I agree with you, and I'll probably get flamed for saying it, but this is why I can understand what Sunak was saying when he made his comment about Sky TV.

Let's be clear, I'm glad he's no longer PM and there's no way he could plead a childhood of poverty, but there is something to be said for people needing to be accountable for their spending choices.

I've never had Sky TV because I can't possibly justify the cost. I'm also agog at how many ladies I know have nails redone every month, which I just couldn't afford.

And new cars all the time. I don't like being in debt and I live within my means, even if that involves tough choices. I worry how many people must be moving into ever increasing amounts of debt.

Sorry, not really the point of the thread, but worth bearing in mind.

DancingPhantomsOnTheTerrace · 24/07/2024 14:57

Flatbellyfella · 24/07/2024 14:20

Herr Starmer not such a charmer now in many peoples eyes after voting for him.

I don't even understand this as an insult. Are you saying he's German? Is this an insult?

Compared to the insult I saw on Twitter last night ("Sir Kid Starver") - even if you disagree with the sentiment and the name calling in general, the insult at least has some internal logic behind it.

HRTQueen · 24/07/2024 15:01

how long is this ridiculous worship of Corbyn going to carry on for

Two elections he was leader of Labour and both elections he lost, the second one spectacularly. He did absolutely nothing for the people of this country and in less than three weeks changes are being made to improve peoples lives under a Labour government led by a sensible intelligent leader.

Starmer has to be tough he has a lot of MP's to manage that he needs behind him to push through the changes that will make peoples lives better. It was absolutely no surprise to see who was on the list of suspended mp's.

and the left starting with their spiteful insults no surprise there we know what so many of them are about