Labour suspends seven MPs over two-child benefit cap

[EasterIssland]

Several labour mps have voted in favour of snps request to remove the 2 child benefit cap and now they’ve* *had the whip suspended for six month.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c978m6z3egno

not the best beginning for this new government

Of course that is not true - only 40% of benefit claimants work at all and many of those are only part-time.
You do realise that the UC element of child allowance is £3k per year per child - not taxed.

I disagree to be honest, we've just had over a decade of weak leaders and a party marred by infighting and rebellions. Labour said in their manifesto they'd keep the cap, but if they were going to lift it, it should be following pricing it up and not following a proposed amendment by the SNP.

Yeah I just stopped listening to my (now former) friend who works part-time and is on benefits, complain about not having enough money when she buys her 3 kids iPhones for Christmas and I’m not talking about on contract. She buys them outright. She was saying her shopping bill is so high, so I suggested she cut out or reduce the junk food and she declined.

Some people don’t want solutions they just want more benefits and will claim they’re raising productive taxpaying members of society blah blah blah so they deserve all the perks . But truth is, I can see her kids going the same way as her too, with not having much work ethic - they are lovely but not very driven or focused which is understandable as they have their parents as examples.

The NMW has actually risen quite a lot compared to other salaries. We need wage rises across the board including the squeezed middle and to look again at tax thresholds.

Yet their children can’t afford stationery or to contribute to the school trips.

My friend doesn’t contribute anything to the school trips either where the suggested donation is £10, and she still has a nerve to complain about the quality of some of the trips.

That’s what leading a party involves. There are some matters which are a free vote, and some which the party needs MPs to unite behind. I’m not saying it’s right, but it’s the way things work and if KS didn’t remove the whip the first time it happened, then it would keep happening.

I am not even saying I agree with the decision to retain the cap, but this is normal politics and I think other things Labour are doing/planning to do are brilliant. Hopefully if finances stabilise, the cap can be removed in due course. If there’s no money, there’s no money. Give them time to re budget and change priorities before insisting that they implement costly practices.

Thanks SNP - so generous with other people’s money but there’s a reason the Scottish population has remained the same whilst Englands has soared - no infrastructure and no jobs

Exactly

it worries me when people are voting for what they believe in, and are then penalised, and not what the leader dictates.

Yep

Are you new to politics?

I don’t know the stats on this but anecdotally seems to be a lot of young people on full benefits and completely out of work in Scotland specifically west coast Scotland.

So many seemingly fit active people I knew there are on long term disability for some vague undefined reasons and spend their days at the local weatherspoons or high streets and for the ones who don’t have kids - taking advantage of low cost term time holidays.

I have family who live in the east end and there are families there who haven’t worked for 2 or more generations.

I found it easier to find work when I lived there though. The issue I saw for people wasn’t lack of jobs, it was a lack of the will to work.

It’s literally what happens all the time.

tory MPs were voting against what they believed in all the time, and will continue to do so in opposition. It’s called party discipline. If you’re a member of a political party and get elected as an MP, for certain matters you have to vote like you’re told whether you like it or not.

That seems a bit draconian for 7 MP's when he has a huge majority, and I doubt the Tories would have voted against. I agree that this shouldn't take priority over public sector pay rises and eould be better spent on breakfast clubs at school orcthe nursery tooth brushing even. But now he has 7 people who can join the other independents for 6 months and do what they like.

No one seems to question these people in TV as to why they bought 5 extra children into poverty when they couldn't afford to feed their children. They are the ones who have deprived their children. No one else. £6k a year for 2 children is a large amount of money. It's more than I have had in payrises. She want £21k in child tax credits!

A few hard left MP’s losing the whip for 6 months is really no big deal for them or for the Labour Party. Maintaining a substantial whipped majority is critical for Starmer.

I think k he's shown strong leadership and stuck to what he said he'd do in his manifesto.
The cap should remain, I chose to not have children with my second husband because if one of us lost our jobs at that point or we separated it would put us into poverty. I didn't want that so took appropriate steps to make sure the two had could still have a good standard of living.

There is no way Labour can give in to every pleading part of the economy. We will be even more bankrupt than we are now. As a result we need to grow the economy and Labour is sensibly phasing spending. It must be hugely disappointing to see 7 MPs are already not supporting the manifesto.

I would prefer more targeted help for dc. Directly provided to dc. I have my doubts that benefits paid to some parents do much for children other than qualify them for free meals, more funding at school, and free trips whilst parents can spend the money on what they like. No guarantee it’s on dc at all although I’m not saying that about all parents. What some dc don’t get is the role model of parents working. They get a message that not bothering is good enough.

Once DC are at secondary, it’s clear some parents could work more than 16 hours but there’s no incentive to do it. Labour needs to be very careful about this because lots of families have 2 parents working and are just about keeping the show on the road. They will be resentful and Labour would do well to make sure people don’t get more and more by doing very little. They need these people to continue to work to grow the economy, not back off because benefits are better.

Well it's Keir showing his true colours. Completely unnecessary, just to prove a point.

No it's brilliant. The MPs knew the consequences of walking into the SNPs trap on this one. A united party not tarnished by infighting is much better than it being a free for all. Its far more sensible as well for Labour to properly cost options and explore what will actually be best rather than diving in.

It was on the BBC 6pm news

He kept saying Wales was the blueprint for labour. They've nationalised the trains, free school meals for all children to start with

As a single parent I work full time but my wage isn’t enough to support us without UC. It isn’t my fault the cost of living is so high one full time wage isn’t enough to live on without help. I work in childcare so my job is essential so that all you higher earners can go to your better paid jobs, but I’m looked down on for needing UC to survive.

What really needs to happen is make one full time wage enough to support a family on. Bring down housing costs, utilities, council tax so that single earning families can manage without top ups.

@Frozenicicle well it's the party system working as it should. Two weeks ago we were all told to vote for our local constituency MP and how aligned they are with our values, not for a party. Now, anyone with any opinion of their own (or god forbid desire to represent their constituents) will be quashed.

Democratic? I don't think so.

Exactly. Sorting out public sector pay is more of a priority than paying for people mindlessly having children they can’t afford. I read the cost of removing it is £3.4bn

Conservative MPs behaved badly fighting like ferrets in a sack for the last few years, all trying to be prime minister material. They were like pupils at school, the class every teacher dreads right through school.

I'm glad they got a kick up the backside. We really don't want them impressing first time MPs.

Sadly, many claimants exploit the benefits system. It’s a system that discourages people from actually finding employment. After all, who would go to the effort and hassle of working at a minimum wage job when you could receive as much in benefits?
Any claimants that had their 3+ children before the intro of the cap - 2017 - are not affected. Anyone who had a multiple pregnancy that takes them over the cap are not affected. There is not a perfect system that cannot be exploited for the benefit of those who choose not to work. Earning one’s own living should always been the first option, supplemented by income support where necessary.
Emotive language about ‘keeping mothers and children in poverty’ isn’t helpful.