The Guardian today on the safety of the Lucy Letby convictions

[Kittybythelighthouse]

This article was apparently months in the making but it was delayed by the reporting restrictions https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/article/2024/jul/09/lucy-letby-evidence-experts-question

“A Guardian investigation has interviewed dozens of these experts and seen further evidence from emails and documents. Those raising concerns include several leading consultant neonatologists, some with current or recent leadership roles, and several senior neonatal nurses. Others are public health professionals, GPs, biochemists, a leading government microbiologist, and lawyers. Several of those still working in the NHS have asked to remain anonymous, fearing the impact if they are named.

These experts said they were acutely aware of the suffering of the families involved and did not want to reopen their trauma, but were so troubled they felt compelled to become involved”

You say medical data but the reality is a lot of these poor babies had already had post mortem examinations which certified death from natural causes - they were looked at again by a different set of criteria - criteria which seems to have been created by Dewi Evans to fit a certain narrative. Medical info re air embolism but did they actually call up the doctor who did that study or did they just twist it to fit what they wanted to. Now they are saying something wasn’t accurate (door swipe data) but it’s ok as wasn’t critical to the trial but why mention it at all then unless you want to ‘set the scene’ alongside the account from Ravi Jayaram where he essentially saw her doing nothing but nothing then becomes something.

The CPS know they are going to lose credibility over this they are minimising it but I bet it’s the tip of the iceberg.

The recent news too about the bacteria in the plumbing system in the NICU unit there at the same time as the excess deaths.

I have such a horrible feeling this was a dirty, failing hospital with a toxic environment and taking babies too premature/ sick and it was all going wrong. Better to set up a nurse with no dc and not a doctor on a career path to becoming a consultant etc and protect the nhs image than have the truth come out. But it will come out one day I’m sure of it.

www.private-eye.co.uk/pictures/special_reports/lucy-letby.pdf

Link to private eye articles about the doubts over the medical evidence.

It really is so bizarre that the defence did not call their medical expert. They must have thought his evidence would not assist their case and yet he seems to be all over the press saying he disagreed with the prosecution witness so why was he not allowed to put that alternative view?

In the Channel 5 programme I linked to, they talked about this Dutch nurse who was convicted for 7 murders but then released as a miscarriage of justice.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucia_de_Berk_case

x.com/drphilhammond/status/1824736600477007975/photo/4

Concerns raised by Prof Hall

That's what started me off with doubts about LL the similarities are striking I think.

I know that she is not allowed to appeal? But at what point can someone (who?) step in and actually insist on a retrial if anything else comes to light ?

This is the trouble and what led to eg Andrew Malkinson being in prison for 17 years for a crime he did not commit and even after there was DNA evidence that someone else did it that they had known about for at least 10 years.

Once you have exhausted your appeal you have to rely on the CCRC which are notoriously crap and don't refer anyone. Andy Malkinson appealed to them twice with the DNA evidence and they still did not refer his case back until the 3rd time.

Sadly I think LL will be in prison for a long time even if she did not do it. Miscarriages of justice do happen in the U.K. not uncommonly.

Yes I’ve read an awful account of one of the babies and failed and traumatic intubation attempts which was then attempted at a different hospital and successful? Yet it was one of the babies LL was found guilty of murdering.

If the CPS has admitted submitting inaccurate evidence that should place the entire conviction(s) on an unsafe footing and she needs to have a retrial. It's irrelevant if it was germane to the conviction - if that was inaccurate there's no confidence in the accuracy of the rest of it.

Absolutely. Every last minute detail needed to be accurate and precise. Their case needed to be watertight. One part being wrong is an indication of weakness and therefore it all needs to be re examined. For everyone - those poor babies deserve true justice, their parents deserve real answers and LL deserves a retrial and justice.

How many babies have died since she's been locked up?

I think the excess deaths stopped when they stopped taking babies more premature than the unit was meant to take . I think the increase in stillbirths went down at the same time as well? I know there was a report into failings at the unit too over that time period ? A lot going on clearly.

I find this fascinating, I believe there are barristers looking into things. I do not know if LL Is innocent or guilty, but I know that further investigation is required. I would also like to point out that this is the reason we should never return to Capital punishment.

It’s extremely unnerving isn’t it that in case of this magnitude a mistake like this was made ?

Whatisthereason , it’s terrifying, I suspect if ever it went to a national vote, it would be back. My brother is a barrister and thinks that around 10% of the prison population is innocent. That figure is way too high.

It really is terrifying. The errors that get made and the potential human cost of that is unimaginable 😔

As someone who works in an area of healthcare with swipe card access, I would say that swipe card data should never be relied on to determine who is where at any given moment. In the last few days I have:

• walked in behind another staff member who used their card
• held the door open for someone behind me
• swiped someone in as I was passing on my way somewhere else because they hadn't got their card on them
• borrowed someone else's swipe card because I'd left mine in my locker

This is all totally normal, accepted practice because it's a hospital not a prison, but my swipe card data could show me as being on a ward when I'm actually sitting in the canteen. Or as off the ward when I'm actually on it.

I'm surprised that this wasn't raised by the defence, regardless of the accuracy of whether the records showed entry or exit.

I only became aware of the issues around her case due to this thread. I’m now quite invested and have read around and watched/listened to a lot more information and views. The more I am exposed to the more I am inclined to believe Lucy is innocent. It feels like there is too much at stake from a judicial standpoint for this case to ever be allowed a retrial.
I actually find it really disturbing the Police are planning a programme based around her conviction; everyone now knows there are massive questions surrounding a huge amount of the ‘evidence’.
Police need to police and not attempt PR Coups - they risk making this whole fiasco even worse and loosing yet more public confidence.

I have noticed that the media and public have always been wary of calling LL a 'monster' or 'sadistic', the usual terms used for child killers, as ultimately I think there hasn't been a public acceptance of this result especially with our confession or notivation. There was nothing in Lucy's background to suggest who such psychopathic tendencies could have arisen.

I think Ultimately the conviction will be quashed in a timeframe of years. A lot of the GPS and others involved in the trial will have moved on.

I feel heartbroken for the families because they impossibly reading these facts about the case being leaked out how and this must actually add to this confusion and anger at the trsut.

Dave Allen Green has written an article on this too (lawyer and political commentator)

Lucy Letby and miscarriages of justice: some words of caution

Oh Dr Harkness, that's one of the doctors who had left child G behind a screen with no monitor switched on!!

The prosecution claimed in their opening statement that Letby turned it off. And it was only when a nurse who worked there heard the opening statement that she went to make a statement, saying that LL did not turn that monitor off, and that Dr Gibbs and Dr Harkness both apologised to her at the time for not switching it back on.

In court Dr Harkness denied that and said it was highly unlikely and he didn't remember the conversation.

How do you know something is 'highly' unlikely if you don't even remember it and have made serious errors before?

I have a chronic illness and suffer with brain fog. I sometimes put things in stupid places or more seriously, have burnt things and caught things on fire by leaving them on the hob. That latter has only happened once or twice, but is bad enough that I would not get a gas cooker.

If someone accused me of say, leaving the cooker on with the result that the entire house burned down, I couldn't reasonably dismiss that I may have been responsible for it. At best I could say I didn't remember doing such a thing, but it wouldn't be 'highly' unlikely that I could indeed, have done it. In fact it would be somewhat likely. (Unless circumstances proved I wasn't there at all or something)