Death penalty

[Movingo]

I don't want to be roasted. I do believe in it. For personal reasons it's definitely valid in my opinion.
I believe if you're so heinous in your behaviour to warrant that sentence then yes.
I'm all for it.
I'm aware it's an unpopular opinion. So I'm really only talking about people who confessed or where there was truly evidence they were guilty.
I'm asking as my mum is dead set against it. No matter what.
Whereas, my dad said he'd be the executioner if he believed their guilt for sex crimes etc.
So. Im just curious really.
I hope my thread is not deleted.... I know lots of people like to complain.

Doesn't matter if it is rare.
Killing one innocent person through the death penalty is one too many.

I used to be in favour but then I thought well aren’t you making someone else into a killer. I think life imprisonment and I mean life and in a tough prison with a cramped cell and no tv. That’s more of a punishment

What is the calibre for a state executioner? I wouldn't want to do it, would you?

In the USA where they have the death penalty, the people who actually get executed are generally from ethnic minorities, poor, and with specific learning or development difficulties. Because the criminals who are rich, white and neurotypical are able to access adequate defence to at least get their sentence commuted even if they are guilty.

Every safeguard you create to ensure the system only executes the actually-guilty will inevitably get unevenly applied so that the privileged benefit more than the underprivileged.

Albert Pierrpoint was the last hangman in the UK. He was a thoroughly decent man who did not want anyone to suffer, being hanged in the UK was literally death by broken neck, not hanging until you ran out of air. If the neck wasn't cleanly broken, he considered it a failure.

The states that have the death penalty have higher murder rates. It’s not a deterrent. You’ve literally just said so yourself.

It makes sense though doesn't it - just think of all the people who do awful things and don't have to face responsibility for it because they choose suicide by law enforcement. I would imagine that a large proportion of murderers are also either actively or passively suicidal so would that be a deterrent? There's a reason why police view men who are abusive as potentially homicidal if they are known to be suicidal. If someone knew their time in prison was limited and would result in death - possibly not understanding how long the process actually takes - that may seem easier than just life in prison where you actually need to survive it. And for some there may even be a twisted "badge of honor" element to being a death row prisoner if they're seeking notoriety.

Where are you getting that "30 people killed every year by killers that have murdered before" statistic from? Because that's massively inaccurate for the UK.

This is an old ONS stat for England and Wales but over a ten year period it was basically a handful of people each year - "For homicide offences recorded between the year ending March 2005 and the year ending March 2015 in total, 48 people who were convicted of a homicide offence had a previous conviction for homicide (less than 1%)."

I'd get already convicted lifers to do it. Not shoot them but "press the button" so to speak.

@Movingo "If it was my sister or mother etc with unequivocal evidence and I knew it was them with no remorse.. yes. I would."

I probably would too. That's why we have a criminal justice system, not a kangaroo court.

exactly this there’s no getting away with the fact the inequality in our system will result in certain groups being punished disproportionately with the death penalty wherever it exists .

And while I’ll always hold people responsible for their actions irrespective of their background, and would happily put them in jail for evermore - I draw the line at murdering them because we can’t forget a disproportionate amount of the murderers had horrendous starts to life.

I’m talking repeatedly raped by their Uncle or Dad etc, passed around in Care, beaten constantly Including head injuries -all of which can affect how a person behaves and their brain wiring .

Not excusing their behaviour but let’s be real here, they didn’t have as much chance as Freddie from the suburbs - with the kind parents who read and played with him every day , and told him they loved him every night and that he could be anything he wanted to be, as he drifted off to sleep - to live a decent life or regulate their emotions.

When the argument for the death penalty is indistinguishable.from the argument for a.lynch mob, you'd hope most people would step back and take another look at their beliefs.

@pointythings hilarious. Have you ever been or lived there? I have. Yep they have their issues like any country. Even the UK (!) has it's issues. the nonsense people like you spew out is nowhere near the reality.
The lengths a rape victim has to go through to get any kind of justice here is a joke. That's before they are even deemed relevant enough to be able to stand.
Don't spit venom about something you can't back up with facts. And spare me the rhetoric about how the middle east doesn't favour women. Come back to me when we live in a world where women don't have to take their clothes off on national television on a game show to be validated, then on that show she then wait around till a man makes his decision as to which women he will make his partner and then HE will decide wether or not he will marry/make her his girlfriend/give the relationship a name.

Okay, so 4.8 per year according to that source.

I consider anything above zero to be unacceptable. Why are we expected to tolerate convicted murderers being put back on the streets to kill again?

Wow, so many strawmen I could start a farm!

Will you deny that women have been prosecuted for being raped in Islamic countries (because they were deemed to have committed adultery)? Will you deny that the word of a woman who has been raped counts as less than the word of the man denying he did it? Will you deny that virginity testing still happens? Will you deny that women from some Middle Eastern countries are not free to travel as they wish without the approval or accompaniment of a man?

Note that I didn't say the West gets it right on women's rights. Note that I did not say that the UK is a utopia for rape prosecutions - it very much isn't. I hope that will now begin to change. As for game shows - women have a choice as to whether or not they participate in that particular show. And I've been on The Weakest Link; I can assure you I was fully dressed at the time.

Two wrongs don't make a right.

Oh, and I have indeed spent substantial time in a Middle Eastern country. I adapted my mode of dress and behaviour and it was fine because that is what you do when you are in someone else's country - but I was glad to go home to all the freedoms I grew up with.

I don't agree with the death penalty

It doesn't act as a deterrent

It costs more than prison

It's too easy a punishment for the criminal - they should spend years having to consider what they have done and trying to make amends where possible

However, some of our prisons are far too easy and they do cost a fortune

I think that:

Every prisoner should have to work and the majority of the pay they get should go towards prison costs and charities which support victims of crime

If they have savings, some of that should go towards their prison costs (if single/no dependents, I would not want to take from their families if in hardship)

All prisoners should donate blood to pay back something to society

White collar criminals who are not physically dangerous should not be in prison. They should be working, but sentenced to paying a percentage of their salary towards either the company/person they stole from or a crime victim charity

If you die in hospital whilst a prisoner, you donate your organs automatically, again - to give something back

I know some people might not agree - that this is taking away their rights for them to have no choice; but they lost their right to that choice when they committed a serious crime (which their victims had no choice about)

The above might be more of a deterrent too...

Forced blood and organ donation is a bad path to go down. Removal of bodily autonomy is another area the state should not be allowed to set foot in.

And on a practical note, there's a high level of factors among prisoners that would make them unsuitable donors.

@jackstini "However, some of our prisons are far too easy and they do cost a fortune "

Tell me about these easy prisons...,

@BarHumbugs I wouldn't want to do it no.
Same way I wouldn't want to euthanise a beloved pet either. But some people choose to become vets and do this daily.
Some people would be an executioner with dignity and respect for the job.
By wrong calibre I meant that we wouldn't want an executioner who was enthusiastic in killing people for a thrill and made torturous mistakes.

What's the best way of killing people?

@cupcaske123 How would I know? I'm not a murderous person.
I'm assuming you're talking about by the law? Well, there's no nice of doing it, otherwise it wouldn't be a punishment.
I don't feel sorry one bit for people in the electric chair or on the table with a lethal injection in their veins if they've committed a heinous crime.

You were talking about the best type of executioner, one who didn't make torturous mistakes. I therefore asked you what the best way of killing someone would be. How do we murder these people? Lethal injection, gas, electricity, bring back hanging ..in China they shoot you in the head and your family are charged for the bullet. No money is wasted as there isn't a prolonged judicial process

So you would be prepared to take a life. To kill someone. To watch the life extinguish from their eyes.
That's says something about you.

I worked in forensics. Some people did terrible things but many of them have had terrible things happen to them.

There is no such thing as unequivocal evidence unless there is a confession and not always then..

You said you could be a murderer op, in the right context. State sponsored murder is still murder.