Death penalty

[Movingo]

I don't want to be roasted. I do believe in it. For personal reasons it's definitely valid in my opinion.
I believe if you're so heinous in your behaviour to warrant that sentence then yes.
I'm all for it.
I'm aware it's an unpopular opinion. So I'm really only talking about people who confessed or where there was truly evidence they were guilty.
I'm asking as my mum is dead set against it. No matter what.
Whereas, my dad said he'd be the executioner if he believed their guilt for sex crimes etc.
So. Im just curious really.
I hope my thread is not deleted.... I know lots of people like to complain.

If you agree with the death penalty then you have to accept that some of the people executed will be innocent. Do you accept that?

But surely you can see that is ridiculous. And if you do it for death by dangerous driving, where do you stop? Surely all forms of negligence resulting in death would also potentially attract the death penalty then. It’s one thing being angry that someone has acted recklessly and stupidly by doing things like speeding, drink-driving, working as a surgeon when over-tired. It’s quite another to say that the state should now murder them as revenge. Would you really want to live in a society like that?

See also Timothy Evans, as well as Derek Bentley and Ruth Ellis. He was innocent and executed.

Pardoned 16 years later, though, so that’s alright

Edited to add that I see someone else has mentioned TE

Huh? Makes no sense.

and that is why the relatives of murder victims don't get to pick the punishment, although they often get to make a victim impact statement which i think is right.

Given the questions about being the executioner: my method would be firing squad of 8 and they are picked like juries.

Picked liked juries? You’d get a letter through the post telling you you were going to shoot someone?

Yep, could work! 😂

@Quisisana

"If you agree with the death penalty then you have to accept that some of the people executed will be innocent. Do you accept that"

Equally from a jury's perspective if you know that a guilty verdict will result in the accused being executed then they will be looking for a far higher proof of guilt.

So if you agree with the death penalty then you have to accept that there will be more guilty people being wrongly found innocent.

I'm not opposed to the death penalty, people like Rose West, Wayne Couzens, Ian Huntley are a waste of oxygen and bring nothing good to this world.
I read a book written by Rose Wests step daughter (Fred's bio daughter) and her life is in ruins because of that woman. The step daughter seems to still have this loyalty towards Rose and it's ruining her relationship with her own children who can't understand it. It's so sad, and Rose just gets to sit in her cell causing all this harm, I don't think it would be a bad thing at all to put her to death.

Absolutely not. People confess to things they haven't done, they're coerced into confessing. There have been many people found guilty of crimes they haven't committed.

The time leading up to death is classified as torture. It depends on money, in the States those on death row are often poor, from deprived backgrounds and ethnic minorities. I don't believe in mob justice or using the justice system for revenge.

It's revenge, it doesn't deter crime. It doesn't belong in a civilised society.

i was entirely tongue in cheek there given I'm against the death penalty. But i would be interested what those who are pro-death penalty would say about that.

I lived in Singapore which has the death penalty. How it is applied is very very patchy.

There was a case of a Belgian man who murdered his child to spite his ex-wife. If you believe in the death penalty he should have been executed. Instead he got five years in a clinic, and now lives his life normally. It is so enraging and scandalous.

Nowhere with the death penalty applies it in a way that stands up to scrutiny.

No. It’s unthinkable.

I know @Brefugee , I know!

i thought i'd better be clear because i know how these things can go.😀

Do people realise how much it costs to keep a person in prison for life?

This has been covered.
Do you know how much keeping someone on death row costs? They don’t take people out and shoot them 5 minutes after a guilty verdict.

I think cases likeTimothy Evans, hanged for murders he didn't commit, reinforced my anti-capital punishment views.
Posthumous pardons are pointless and just horrible. There is no going back and if it's reintroduction (eg under Reform) does ever happen then gross miscarriages of justice will occur again.
I also think of Derek Bentley and Ruth Ellis, two people who may have been guilty but should never have been hanged. It was purely revenge by the authorities in those cases. I also think the Guildford four would have been hanged if CP was the law at the time, even though evidence against them was highly unreliable.

Terrible argument. Cost shouldnt come into it. Otherwise you’re on a slippery slope to the elderly and disabled being seen as costing too much and why should they not be euthanised, which is the concern of many who are against euthanasia.

Absolutely not.

First it's more expensive. To change that you are going to need to really speed up the appeals process. What a place to live - the state will murder you and you are not even give you a thorough process to argue your innocence.

Secondly it doesn't work. Otherwise America would have a lot less murdering. It does not.

Thirdly people want the death penalty for the rage-inducing crimes like rape and paedophilia instead of just murder. That's going to result in a lot more victims getting murdered. If you're ok raping someone then you might as well kill them so they don't tell anyone. And if you get caught well it'll be the same punishment anyway.

It's normal to have a strong visceral reaction to hearing about horrific crimes. It means you're normal. Personally I'd rather go with the option that works and reduces offending rates and makes things safer.

Pretty sure the statistics when comparing different countries say the way to do that is really focusing hard on rehabilitation, money into social services, support for prisoners once released etc. It might not be as satisfying to do that but if it's what works it's what I pick.

Are the cases you work with murder?

What about inherent subconscious racial bias for example? There's a reason the majority of men on DR in America are black.

Thirdly people want the death penalty for the rage-inducing crimes like rape and paedophilia instead of just murder. That's going to result in a lot more victims getting murdered. If you're ok raping someone then you might as well kill them so they don't tell anyone. And if you get caught well it'll be the same punishment anyway.

I agree with you on this, it also means the perpetrator is more likely to kill other people, say a young police officer stops a car for some minor offence, the person is trying to get away having murdered someone so why not just kill the police officer? Or their partner/landlady/cleaner sees their blood stained clothes? Does the killer risk them reporting them or does he just kill them as well?

Too many risks.

I always want to help

In that case, @Movingo you should follow the evidence on what does and doesn't work, rather than a knee-jerk reaction.

If a person tortures and kills kids they don't deserve to live. Life imprisonment is just a drain on the tax payer.

I’m against the death penalty. I think it’s too easy to persuade that there is a complete absence of doubt. And society being able to terminate someone’s life simply because they’re undesirable makes me a bit uncomfortable.

I also think there are circumstances where murders have occurred that there is absolutely no chance of the perpetrator ever doing something like that again. That woman who snapped after years of domestic violence, for instance. Or that young lad who was in one of those crime documentaries on BBC, where some drunken idiot kept on and on and on at him, trying to fight him. He walked away, he was followed, he pushed him, the drunkard kept trying to fight him, and eventually he punched him. The drunk hit his head and died. I’m not saying that either victim deserved death. But their killers don’t deserve death either.

I think that sentencing guidelines need a dramatic overhaul rather than reintroducing the death penalty. Smaller crimes need more emphasis on rehabilitation. It also needs to be understood that we are wasting our time and resources trying to rehabilitate some other criminals and it is simply about punishment for what they have done and stopping them from hurting anyone else. And giving someone like this a 12 month suspended sentence is neither punishment nor prevention.