Death penalty

[Movingo]

I don't want to be roasted. I do believe in it. For personal reasons it's definitely valid in my opinion.
I believe if you're so heinous in your behaviour to warrant that sentence then yes.
I'm all for it.
I'm aware it's an unpopular opinion. So I'm really only talking about people who confessed or where there was truly evidence they were guilty.
I'm asking as my mum is dead set against it. No matter what.
Whereas, my dad said he'd be the executioner if he believed their guilt for sex crimes etc.
So. Im just curious really.
I hope my thread is not deleted.... I know lots of people like to complain.

He drove his car without the slightest care as to what might happen and who might die. He's shown zero remorse. A woman is dead. Her unborn child is dead. Two children have severe brain damage. Their father now has a life sentence caring for those brain damaged children.

Hanging is too good for that piece of shit.

For me absolutely not. Our justice system is too heavily weighted against certain members of society as it is. There have been lots of cases where evidence has been proven wrong especially as technology advances and miscarriages of justice do happen, people plead guilty when they aren't.

I don't believe there's a surefire enough way to ensure 100% that an innocent person couldn't be killed as a result and that for me is enough to never back it. I believe our system needs overhauled and people who have the capacity to do better with support and the right mechanisms in place should get that support and those who can't should be incarcerated for life. I understand this is more costly to the tax payer but ultimately if you're putting a price on a human life then you're devaluing it regardless.

I think it would be open to exploitation and ultimately do we want to live in a society where we just kill people we don't really know what to do with? Who are uncomfortable and unsafe to deal with? I don't think that's appropriate. Plus if you look at the life history of many murderers and sex offenders they've been subject to horrific abuse themselves. Not that it's an excuse but surely that demonstrates that what we actually need is a better resourced society that prioritises really intervention work and actually appropriately funds services like social services and mh services and where people aren't living in poverty to reduce the rates of offending overall.

Punching someone who does when they fall over is manslaughter not murder, so that wouldn't even fall into the category of potential death penalty.

Dies! Not does...

I'm not saying it's right or wrong. I don't work in law so I have limited experience. But, I'm a psychologist so I hear all the explanations of wrong convictions etc. That's rare if you don't have any other convictions to be put in prison for a length of time.
I started this thread as I was watching a crime show.

No not always. The mens rea for murder is intent to cause GBH or to kill. If you punch with the intention of causing GBH but not death, that would still be murder. If you punch intending only to cause ABH, that would be manslaughter.

Anyone who drives like a twat or drinks and drives does so without regard for what happens. That doesn’t mean we should execute them. You’re reacting how a family member of the victims would react - but I wouldn’t want to live in a world where a judge would react like you do.

I agree, up to a point. But I wouldn’t want to put the responsibility of pushing that button on anyone who is just trying to pay their mortgage. That would leave most people with trauma. And look at Ian Brady; I’m quite happy he had a miserable time of it, wanting to die but being made to stay alive and see out his sentence.

And I don’t think it should necessarily be a drain on resources. Are there really no jobs that could be done by prisoners that give back to society, rather than just paying for their tobacco or chocolate?

So, he gets 12 years and is out in 6?

Do you have any concept of how horrific that father's life now is?

The driver deserves the death penalty and it would be a good deterrent to all the other arsehole drivers.

As people have explained multiple times death penalty is no deterrent. So no it would not stop bad driving at all.

Yes I am sure his life is hard. That doesn’t mean we should kill those convicted of driving offences. The life of someone with a child with disabilities caused by medical negligence will also be hard. Should we kill the doctor? How about someone injured by a fairground ride? Should we kill the fairground owner?

i don’t know if you have any personal connection to this case in which case my condolences. But even if the death penalty did get reintroduced this case would never warrant it - it would be murder only.

It wouldn't be a deterrent at all. Nobody argues that the death penalty is a deterrent as it's been proven not to be true.

I’ve no moral issue against killing serial killers etc but the issue is miscarriages of justice are just unforgivable when it comes to this.

I am 100% against the death penalty for many, many reasons, most of which have been listed by others. Someone mentioned asking the parents of a murdered child what they would do, but the important point here is when do you ask the parents? Straight after the murder? A year later,/ten years later? Their response may change over time. You should read the book by Michelle Lyons, who worked in Texas on death row and witnessed over 300 executions. The book is very interesting and details how many families believe their suffering will reduce when the criminal dies, but not only do their grief intensify, but they end up grieving alongside the families of those executed. There are examples of families who bond over the person who was executed because they were someone's child/sibling/friend, etc. We do not rape rapists, and we do not steal from thieves. My opinion is that murder for murder is not ok in modern society. Considering death row is primarily a certain demographic, there needs to be time and money spent on those people who were let down as children and what led them to be there. They are often illiterate, have no family, and have been raised in care. The system lets them down in the first 18 years of their life, and then that same system wants to kill them when they are a nuisance to the company that did nothing for them.

I definitely disagree with the death penalty . It’s not right.

But, I think euthanasia should be legalised not just for those with terminal / progressive illnesses but for those found guilty of certain crimes where they can choose the life sentence or to be euthanised . If they choose life sentence I think prisons need to be less comfortable

In Singapore people are birched for robbery. Weirdly they have almost zero crime. Fear of punishment is clearly a deterrent that works for the vast majority of crimes - e.g. the fear of a fine or points causes people to slow down near speed cameras.

The death penalty might not be a deterrent for 'crimes of passion' that happen in the spur of the moment, but I think they would be a very strong deterrent for other crimes that result in death.

With regards to medical negligence, it would obviously depend upon the case.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Duntsch

Thing is there is almost always a way for there to be doubt. People are so rarely caught by a police officer while standing over a body with a smoking gun and saying I done it governor. Our threshold is beyond reasonable doubt for that reason. What level do you have for execution and what does that mean for those who don't meet it? Do you just let off all the pretty sure you are a murderers because they weren't caught in the act?

Andrew Malkinson spent 17 years in prison while the police refused to review the available dna evidence. There could be countless others, but at least they have the possibility of going free as they are alive. Sorry for executing you for a crime you didn't commit doesn't really cut it once you are dead.

The Birmingham Six spent 16 years in prison and at the time of their conviction, Lord Denning one of the most prominent judges, said they should have been hanged.

Over a hundred people have been released from death row in the States.

I don’t know where to start with this.

Have a look at this, OP. Scroll down to a graphic showing the murder rate in US states with the death penalty vs the murder rate in states without the death penalty. You will note that the murder rate is lower in states without the death penalty, and that the gap has increased since 1990. The studies on which this is based are linked below.

Not only is the death penalty not a deterrent, it appears to be the opposite.

https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/facts-and-research/murder-rates/murder-rate-of-death-penalty-states-compared-to-non-death-penalty-states

You're confusing cause and effect.

Those states have the death penalty because they have so many horrific murders. You can't prove that the murder rate would be lower or higher if they abolished the death penalty.

The American system has people on death row for 30+ years, so it's not really much of a deterrent.

I'm just finishing a book on Myra Hindley by CaroleAnn Lee.

In it both Brady and Hindley expressed the wish that hanging was still a punishment when they were convicted (it was ceased a very short time before)

Tells me that if its retribution you're after the death penalty isn't the answer

When you get the death penalty for being caught for certain crimes, say serial rape or child sex abuse, then murders are likely to increase in an aim from perpitrators to not get caught.

Absolutely not. Never. It reduces us to savages.

Do some people deserve to die?
Yes

Could we ever have a system that meant there was no chance of getting it wrong (and that’s without even considering the whole value based side of ‘what is wrong’)
No

So do I believe in capital punishment?
No, not in a modern society where there are other options.

No. Taking of human life deliberately through a judicial process is abhorrent.

Too many people are fitted up by the police either deliberately or through incompetence. Even one is too many.

And that for me is the problem. One wrong execution is one too many. I’d more than happily see evil scum breath their last but not at the expense of one innocent.