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Just a little moan about school reward trips

119 replies

Deathfingers · 19/06/2024 10:22

Just want a vent because I can't vent to the school.

Ds year 7 missed out on the reward trip because of behaviour points. Fair enough I guess, they are all for low level things e.g. not having his blazer on at the right time, pen not working and no spare, low level backchat to teachers occasionally. Parents evening they all said hes a good kid, just some minor things but nothing bad and they all said they have a soft spot for him, which was really nice to hear.

Have found out that his pal, who landed another kid in a&e after a fight and is one of 2 kids who were pretty horrid to another kid who ended up having to move class, gets to go, as does the other kid, because they haven't had as many minor behaviour points.

DS now can't understand why he can't go because he's not had a pen or been 10 secs late to a lesson occasionally whereas these 2 other kids get to go despite assaulting/bullying another.

So I just wanted to say into the ether that "DS school, I think this is really shit and undermines your behaviour system, so I'm going to keep DS home that day for his own reward day eating Haribo in his PJs and playing on his xbox 🖕"

That is all.

OP posts:
Curlewwoohoo · 24/06/2024 09:10

Post by Dr Naomi Fisher on Facebook. Well worth following.

Another account hits the news of a school implementing extremely controlling behavioural policies, in the name of turning the school around.

All these pieces report similar approaches - immediate detentions escalating quickly to isolation for minor infractions, including uniform and equipment issues. Staff encouraged to be rigidly consistent, and penalised if they aren't.

The results are predictable. Kids start to dislike school, parents start to protest, and undercover teachers say it's a toxic environment, but they don't dare say so in public. And then people in power say that the parents and kids are making it up and it's only one side of the story.

If they are making it up, it's odd that so many of them say the same thing.

Why are we hearing about so many schools punishing kids for missing green pens, or the wrong colour socks? It's down to the Broken Window theory.

Sweat the small stuff and you won’t have to worry about the big stuff.

This is based on broken window policing. The idea is that if you leave the broken window in a neighbourhood people will think that it’s uncared for and not monitored, and more disorder will follow. The neighbourhood will go downhill. Mend the windows, and you can stop that from happening.

It wasn’t meant to be about people. It was about the environment (and even then, the research isn’t strong). Because it turns out that when you apply it to people it has some quite troubling consequences. Lots of ‘stop and search’. Racial profiling, and deteriorating relationships between people and the police. It turns out people don’t like being jumped on for every little thing. It doesn’t make them feel more positive or pro-social.

Windows and people are, after all, quite different.

In some British schools however, the idea that the way to turn a school around is to 'sweat the small stuff’ has turned into an obsession with uniform details, missing equipment and everyone doing things the same. Line ups in the morning and inspections at tutor group. Refusing to allow girls to wear socks over their tights, as Longsands school did last winter. Everyone using rulers to track reading, and having to keep books flat in the desk, as is reported happening in Astrea Academy schools. Sending girls home en masse for skirt length, as a Welsh school did last week.

Petty control, in the name of ‘sweating the small stuff’. It makes it hard for parents to complain, because schools will say it’s part of their overall strategy to turn behaviour around. Yes, no socks over tights might seem trivial, but they are the ‘broken windows’. Let them wear non-regulation socks and next thing you know they'll be dealing drugs at the school gate.

The result? Schools are seeing broken windows where before there was just a pane of glass. They’re finding windows which weren’t actually broken, but are just designed differently to other windows, or perhaps were left slightly open. Behaviours which were not an issue before have become worthy of sanction.

They’re looking so hard for broken windows that they are seeing them everywhere.

The result is to turn (almost) all the kids into perpetrators. Even the ‘well behaved’ kids get multiple behaviour marks and instant detentions. Those who push back end up in isolation very quickly. I spoke to one girl who said that in her large comprehensive school, only eight children made it through the whole year with no behaviour marks. Less than 1%. She knows because there was a special assembly about it.

Young people and their parents say it creates a negative environment, where kids feel that they are only noticed when they do something wrong - and it’s easy to get things wrong. Some teachers say the same. Staff are leaving and some of them are speaking out. They are scared too, just like the kids.

Some kids get into a spiral of being constantly pulled up for minor infractions and pushing back. Because that is what some kids do. They push back. They want to be able to make some choices in their lives, and they resist petty control. They say No.

For them, sweating the small stuff has exactly the opposite effect that is intended. The small stuff gets bigger and bigger. Cracked windows appear in places where there weren’t even windows before. Broken glass is everywhere you look. The kids fall apart - and still the same strategy continues.

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/cult-like-liverpool-schools-kids-29358458

'Cult' schools where kids 'make themselves ill' to avoid going in

ECHO Investigation: Parents and teachers speak out about 'dysfunctional and prison-like' city academies - but school bosses say they have clear plans to tackle bad behaviour

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/cult-like-liverpool-schools-kids-29358458

AGodawfulsmallaffair · 24/06/2024 09:13

Bringitonnowibeg · 19/06/2024 10:33

Back chat occasionally...I'd say the teachers don't like him very much and none of them want him to go.

That’s such a mean thing to say.

40somethingme · 24/06/2024 09:24

OP the truth is that when the really well-behaved kids forget their pen once a year, or don’t wear their blazer during the break, they usually get away with it and the teachers give them a gentle verbal warning without issuing behaviour points. It’s because they know small mistakes happen but they are unusual for the child in question.
I have 5 teenagers (including sdc) and they have all managed without a single behaviour point so far.
To get to 34 is not “minor”. In my opinion the teachers are not helping by minimising the behaviour when talking to you either.

Deathfingers · 24/06/2024 09:26

Thank you Curlew! Really makes sense, and sort of what I've been trying to put my finger on but couldn't get there fully 😃

Interestingly he went through a phase at the start of the year of disliking school and faking feeling sick which was a surprise, he loves school! I asked them a few times if they knew of anything underlying and his form teacher said no, he's a good kid, has wide circle of friends, no issues etc. It settled down but it was a bit strange. Wondering now if he was just getting used to the strictness of it all maybe.

Thanks again for that!

OP posts:
Deathfingers · 24/06/2024 09:27

AGodawfulsmallaffair · 24/06/2024 09:13

That’s such a mean thing to say.

It's OK i did expect "your DS is a future thug" type posts 😬

OP posts:
AGodawfulsmallaffair · 24/06/2024 09:30

Deathfingers · 24/06/2024 09:27

It's OK i did expect "your DS is a future thug" type posts 😬

Well, I don’t think he is! 😊

eyeblob · 24/06/2024 09:33

Out kids primary year 6 had a special trip for the sporty kids, they were all told was for the sporty kids so you were either sport and going or not. My kid sporty but not in the sports the school did. Told the school imo sending wrong message calling them sporty and non sporty, assured there was a trip for the other "non sporty kids" and appology for saying it was for sporty kids, too late damage done. There wasn't a trip l, was bs. Wasn't fair but life isn't I guess, especially at school unfortunately. I think in your situation I would complain but don't expect to get anywhere.

Deathfingers · 24/06/2024 09:35

AGodawfulsmallaffair · 24/06/2024 09:30

Well, I don’t think he is! 😊

Hes definitely not hes just a bit of a wally at times, like a lot of kids. I know a lot are perfect and never do any wrong at all (or get away with it/don't get caught 😬) and thats great. I haven't got a perfect son, I'm ok with that ☺️

OP posts:
howaboutchocolate · 24/06/2024 09:45

The whole idea of school trips that are dependent on a behaviour points based system sounds totally ridiculous to me in the first place! It's hardly a natural consequence is it, if you forget your pen in the real world you just borrow one, your boss doesn't ban you from the team away day. It's just pathetic levels of control. I totally agree with Naomi Fischer and the post someone made above.

howaboutchocolate · 24/06/2024 09:53

Deathfingers · 24/06/2024 09:35

Hes definitely not hes just a bit of a wally at times, like a lot of kids. I know a lot are perfect and never do any wrong at all (or get away with it/don't get caught 😬) and thats great. I haven't got a perfect son, I'm ok with that ☺️

Good for you keeping him off for a treat day. I'm sure he'll really appreciate it and it will make him feel less resentful about the whole thing. Resentful kids don't behave better in school.

AGodawfulsmallaffair · 24/06/2024 10:04

Deathfingers · 24/06/2024 09:35

Hes definitely not hes just a bit of a wally at times, like a lot of kids. I know a lot are perfect and never do any wrong at all (or get away with it/don't get caught 😬) and thats great. I haven't got a perfect son, I'm ok with that ☺️

No-one has a perfect son, including me, but hard to believe from MN! Hope he has a lovely sofa day.

mindthegap81 · 24/06/2024 10:08

Full sympathy OP.

My family is bilingual, my ds was branded a racist for speaking mandarin to Chinese people on the tube and the punishment was in the same category as violence and he was banned from the prom.

Sdpbody · 24/06/2024 11:05

He needs to follow the rules and you need to reinforce at home.

We are going to have a generation of mollycoddled boys who can't do as their told and expect to moan and get their own way.

Deathfingers · 24/06/2024 11:23

Sdpbody · 24/06/2024 11:05

He needs to follow the rules and you need to reinforce at home.

We are going to have a generation of mollycoddled boys who can't do as their told and expect to moan and get their own way.

Not contributed to by me, he's not moaned expecting me to do anything he's just had a moan. Everyone's entitled to moan, even children. Im not one of those parents, i won't go on at the school about the inconsistent points, or the unfairness here, it is what it is and they won't change it for us so no point.

DS will suck it up and make sure he's on the next trip.

OP posts:
Bringitonnowibeg · 07/07/2024 21:24

He's hardly sucking it up being given a day off as a treat. Sucking it up would be taking his punishment like a big boy.
Does anyone remember being in school with children who back chat "occasionally" It's rude, disrespectful, intimidating and awkward for everyone not to mention disruption to teaching time. Even though you said you won't moan to the teachers they will see you as "that' parent and part of the problem for keeping him off. Ah well hopefully they get an opportunity to punish him in due course. So if these other boys were excluded from the trip would you let him take the punishment ? Or it's the fact that they get to go that's the decider for you. You actually are 'that' parent.

Deathfingers · 08/07/2024 08:48

Sorry the day has been and gone. Had a lovely day although he's already joined a gang who go round randomly telling adults to f off and I'm sure I saw a crack pipe under his bed 🙄

Amusing update - a group of parents whos DC also werent invited also kept theirs off and arranged to meet up there on the parents FB page 😬 along with i think 15 i counted who just kept theirs off like me. if posts are to be believed only about 30 children from about 120 were invited. lots of posts from parents saying they were told different points thresholds from different teachers too. So it all kicked off a bit.

In last weeks newsletter school have said they are reviewing their reward system for September after feedback from parents (not me I hasten to add) to make it more inclusive and transparent, whatever that means.

Bringiton - I'd hope school wouldn't punish a child for being kept off school by the parent. Seems a bit vindictive tbh. Not sure they should be teachers if that's their approach.

OP posts:
RedHelenB · 08/07/2024 08:50

Meadowtrees · 19/06/2024 10:52

OP - ignore the fact that other boy is going, it certainly sounds unfair but that is irrelevant to YOUR son. You need to support the school in helping him to do the best he can. You are giving him the very clear message that his low level disruptive behaviour is fine. That really isn’t in his best interest.

This.

MadameMassiveSalad · 08/07/2024 09:15

@Deathfingers you are teaching your son that he's more special than everyone else.

Nightmare.

Deathfingers · 08/07/2024 09:53

MadameMassiveSalad · 08/07/2024 09:15

@Deathfingers you are teaching your son that he's more special than everyone else.

Nightmare.

I'm very certain that 1 day of countering the school teaching him that bullying and sending other children to a&e isn't as bad as not having a working pen or a blazer off when it's a hundred degrees or not clicking on "submit" on homework or being a bit cheeky occasionally (for e.g.), isn't going to make him think he's more special than others. He knows he's not, because he didn't go on the trip.

He doesn't actually know that's why I kept him off, not the full reason anyway, coincidentally (thankfully as i was a bit nervous about what to say, although im not thankful he felt shit) he was sounding and looked like shit with his hay-fever, normally I dose him up and send him on his way so I just said with it being a non-day in school as they just watch YouTube videos he could stay off. It was a bad few days for hay-fever tbf I even had it and I've not suffered with it for a long time.

OP posts:
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