Thread 49 Sunak: He Left them on the beaches

[DuncinToffee]

3 Weeks to go

Previous thread
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/5090939-thread-48-sunak-capsized-on-the-ship-of-lies?page=40

The Bingo Card is a thing of beauty. @Cheguevarahamster

That doesn't justify giving Farage so much coverage, way beyond his polling level.

He is an extremely dangerous man.

He is dangerous and not stupid. There are parts of the South Wales valleys which have been terribly neglected and there will be some folk who may be vulnerable to his persuasion.

However, on the whole the valleys are strongly Labour.

Aaaaaah! You can tell I haven’t had my coffee yet, can’t you?!

Largely I'm not fussed about Farage. I think most of the UK are decent, tolerant people - actual "British Values". We have seen a pretty profound rejection of the right at the local elections and in the polling.

I'm pretty fed up of this narrative that "the Left" AKA tolerant people are causing people like Farage to get traction. As far as I'm concerned the right wing splintering is chickens coming home to roost from the Tories lurching right and if the more intolerant voters flip about between Reform and the Tories, meh.

I'm feelings quite positive now too because my DS and his friends were all politically inactive and saying they were not voting, but now apparently they are. DS voting green. He says Farage is all over tiktok but the youth are just ridiculing him (I know I have a sample of one, but I think its a good sign).

Seen today

@CassieMaddox Hope you re right.

But its not the youth who will ever support Reform, its the older voter.

Farage for some reason, is influencing the policies of both main parties, Labour have far more in common with earlier versions of the Tories than they do with Corbyn and the Cons are becoming more extreme than right wing parties in Europe.

Morning all. Was feeling quite upbeat about the election until I caught up with your thread! Also I've been seeing quite a lot of chat about the wind turbines in Scotland, Keir (apparently) saying he'll put more (bigger) ones up and people saying they'll vote Reform because of that. Really hoping some of you who are more positive about their ineffectiveness are proven right!

I must admit I am worrying a bit too. But I think it will all be OK in the end. But Labour has to deliver in government or we really could see the rise of Farage and his ilk.

I've just wasted a few minutes reading the local Reform candidate's bio. She is against rewilding and used to work in NHS as a midwife and then in eggs. The strongest word was how we have been "deceived" by everyone we have elected and how everyone should be able to do manual labour not just watch it (?). She looks a bit like someone they would have put on a pyre a century or two ago. Quirky would be a kind way to describe her.

Not sure the VAT policy is doing good things for Labour. The rich people I know don't give a shit about the policy but are openly now being clear it isn't going to do much for the state sector. No one has had that WA message that I know (it was an open "secret" on here - plenty of threads started by Labour supporters on VAT not the parents) so it looks like a publicity stunt aimed at poking fun. It's not really the best policy in terms of what it is going to achieve and no one understands why they seem to be focusing so much time and money pushing it. It's turning people off and making Labour seem quite petty. Having watched that Panorama it looks as though there are plenty of ways Labour could be supporting education and SEN as well as tackling independent schools that are bleeding LA's dry with no safeguards in place. I can't be the only one on here that thinks their educational offering is poor?

Had to switch LBC off this morning as the business expert on Nick Ferrari’s show was reporting that a ’senior HSBC economist’ reckoned Labours plans would increase unemployment. Checked in the guardian and can’t see anything about it so not sure how accurate it is. It’s irritating that the scrutiny of the Tory manifesto has been low key as if it’s entirely sensible with no daft ideas or spending plans.

Anyone got any suggestions for some non-manifesto changes a huge Labour majority should look at ?

How about preventing peers from sitting as members of the government - prevent the little scam of ennobling people to circumvent democracy ? Coupled with a change so an awarded honour (as opposed to title by birth) can't be given up ? Once a peer, always a peer, and no more elections for you.

Intended to prevent Cameron mk. II and the possibility of that cunt Frost standing as MP again.

I feel this about GC lefty feminists. The ones that occupy the FWR board and are voting Tory because they know what a woman is. Are they happy about leaving the ECHR ? Really shooting themselves in the foot.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c722yx482xno

On that @SerendipityJane this was pretty disgusting.

I think that's a really complex issue for oldies like me and thus political parties - interpreting what social media engagement translates into. My three have spent hours watching and sharing rightwing online content including with me - they particularly like winding me up by forwarding Tory tiktok and Instagram videos to me. None of that will translate into votes. This generation just really enjoys taking the piss.

I lost my shit at DS when I discovered he and his mates were watching Andrew Tate then discovered they were creating loads of pretty poor memes taking the piss out of Andrew Tate using his content. Farage almost certainly has the same problem. And treating him as Roderick Spode may be the best way to deal with him.

And shooting the rest of us in the head in the process.

I’m quite worried about myself because I watched Newsnight’s coverage of Reform and a couple of their ideas on the NHS are decent. Writing off student debt for doctors, nurses and dentists who work in the NHS for ten years and removing training caps seem eminently sensible to me. I’d be looking to steal their clothes with those two if I was a Labour politician.

It is. but unless he is threatening to became a non-peer to stand for election, or gets given a ministry without being elected, it's really just yet another reason to scrap the idea of peerages as entry to the UKs second chamber.

I've suggested before that we could use the single GE to populate both houses of parliament. Maybe genuine FPTP for the member for the commons and some sort of PR around the runners up to determine entry to a second chamber with less power and more oversight. Such a system would naturally provide a balance between the majority and the anti-majority (so to speak).

Also an elected head of state, who does have power. Now it's been conclusively proven that King Charles, like his late mother has fuck all power to help us (the monarchs power exists solely to help the monarch). Ideally on a slightly out-of-phase cycle compared to parliamentary elections.

It's unlikely to happen, as it's against any governments interests. But the tendency of the UKs electoral system to deliver long-serving governments is definitely a force that works against democracy. How many senior civil servants and lords are appointed over 14 years ?

Yes! I don't really understand how they engage with social media but it certainly doesn't appear to be that if they enjoy a video they believe it
My eldest also likes trolling me. A while ago he told me he was Superstraight and thought Andrew Tate had a point, then I spoke to a teacher who said DS was always putting across the feminist position in ethics at school 😂
I'm just pleased he's voting tbh. The more young voters turn out the more it potentially neutralises older Reform voters.

I’m quite worried about myself because I watched Newsnight’s coverage of Reform and a couple of their ideas on the NHS are decent.

If you read the 1932 National socialist manifesto, it seemed reasonable and had some good ideas. However, the "burn down your house in case of fleas" part less so.

I really don't give a shit about "a good policy". If you realise as you cast your vote that you are between Wayne with the swastika tattoos and Gary who is positively slavering with "send them home" as you enter the polling booth then you really, really, really, really really should not ever ever ever ever find yourself voting for the same thing they are. And if this seems illiberal and illogical then so be it. But as the meme that I have seen recently (thank goodness) so succinctly puts it:

My grandfather fought fascists, he didn't vote for them

Is abolition of HoLs in the Labour Manifesto?

Dentists, even if loans are written off, can earn many times more in the private sector then in the NHS.

Loan repayments for a band 5/6 are still quite low, it wouldn't be a panacea.

No, if you want people to stay in the NHS, then you have to pay them more, a lot more.

On dentistry, they are charging nr me, £850 for 2 hours root canal work, thats obscene.... i would say to these people "You either reduce your charges or lose your right to practice" they wont be able to leave to anywhere that will pay them more...

Why can i go to Spain or Germany and get 3 x RC for 260/400 euros but £850 here???

If these fees are caused by costs they cannot reduce, then we need to get rid of these.... though i don't know what they could be?

Labour need to focus on making peoples lives better or they will out inside 5 years and Reform or something similar will take over.

HoLs? Give me strength, no one gives a shit.

They put in a retirement age of 80 and a call for a consultation on replacing the House of Lords with a "more representative" body.

They'd never have got this far if it was.

We're back to "reform" of the HoL. Limit how long peers can server and try for a balanced cap. But as we all know you have to be very careful. Peers can't be expected to be subject to the laws of man. Why else would you even be a peer otherwise ?

Lady Hale though...
Weirdly I was trying to explain HoL to dd over the weekend and she said we should be voting for them too @SerendipityJane but she wanted PR and a choice of over 5 for each constituency that would be revisited every 4 years in line with the GE. I did point out that a lot of people wouldn't have voted for some of the better Lords and Ladies in there (such as Hale) in favour of protest votes like the Reform lot, disruptors that could potentially endanger the system rather than support it in a meaningful way (thinking MEPs).

Was an odd chat on a car journey with a 12yo!

Shame.