Deferring primary in Scotland

[hownowpurplecow]

Posting here as the Scotland boards are quiet. Just looking for some opinions really. DS1 is a late October birthday, we have the option to defer him starting P1 under the rules in Scotland brought in last year. My husband is very pro deferral, sees it as no disadvantage and lets DS have an extra year of play. I’m less sure, he’s bright, no developmental concerns, would turn 5 11 weeks after starting school so not youngest in the year. Most people I’ve spoken to say nobody regrets deferring but I still can’t shake my uncertainty? I don’t want to academically disadvantage him by sending him too soon, but I worry he could be socially disadvantaged as he gets older as he could potentially be a full year older than other kids in his year which would be more noticeable if he turned 13 in a class with 11 year olds? It would be much easier if they hadn’t brought in the new rules for deferring so I didn’t even have to think about it!

Even though I have Scottish family, I always forget how it works in Scotland.

So to start school in September, a child would need to turn 5 between March to February? Is that right? So therefore by September half of the children will be 5 and the other half will yet to turn 5?

To clarify... instead of starting at 4y9m, he'd start at 5y9m?
Then secondary at 12y9m, instead of 11y9m?

The extra of year of play sounds good... I'm sure he won't be the only one.
It would be the other end I'd be less sure on, simply as they don't know how that will turn out. But obviously, Primary schools in Scotland are used to 12.5yos, and its not that big a difference

Yes so in Scotland, if your child turns 5 between April - August, they start school that year. If they’re still 4 by the time term starts in August, you have the choice to defer them. Previously it was only children born Jan-March who could defer, but last year the rules changed to any 4 year old. So DS will be 5yrs 9 months when he starts if we defer, instead of 4yrs 9 months. I think part of my indecision is because I’m English and have no experience of the Scottish system, in England he’d have been one of the oldest in his year so we wouldn’t have ever had to consider deferring. I am definitely over thinking it!

An October born child is quite old to be deferred. There will be children in his year more than a whole year younger than him.

If it is a Jan or Feb birthday then to me it's a given you would want to defer, but I'm not sure I would for an October child unless I had concerns about their development.

Ah a new start rule I was confused because you have been able to deffer forever in Scotland. If you feel your son isn't socially or academicly ready for school defer him if you think he'd be at an advantage by deferring then I wouldn't.

My son is November birthday and has had a terrible time settling into nursery this year. So, I’ve deferred him. I don’t feel he is mature enough to join P1 in August. Nobody advised against it and the teachers would adapt to the child’s level of maturity rather than making the child adapt (however, we are in an extremely remote school and he’d been the only one going into P1 which was another reason to defer) It really comes down to your gut instinct. If you have no developmental concerns then would seem silly to defer.

Would he be joining a composite class if he started this year,? @skibiditoilet

If he's bright will he not get bored of another year of nursery? Almost 6 seems late to be starting and I think if there are no great concerns he should just go this year. I say that as soneone who had 2 young December children who over the course didn't have any issues due to age/maturity. Have you spoke to the nursery?

I personally wouldn’t defer an October born unless I had real concerns that they weren’t socially ready. It sounds like he is bright and ready academically and P1 is normally very play based anyway. At over 5.5 in June next year he will be in with 3 year olds in nursery which will seem like a massive gulf by then. They’re doing P1 transition stuff already at our nursery - has he been doing any of that? What do the nursery staff think?

I’m October and many of my friends were younger and thrived at school, but obviously norms around deferral are different now.

My youngest son is November birthday and we didn’t get the option to defer, he’s now in senior phase high school. He’d have benefited from it in some ways as he has autism but on the other hand his struggles with school were far deeper than just being one of the youngest. He also hated nursery and for a bright child I think an extra year of nursery could be pretty boring. I don’t really think an October child needs a deferral the way a Jan or Feb one would benefit personally

Socially I think I’d be thinking further up the school tbh, my eldest wasn’t deferred but he’s April, now he’s 18 and wanting to go out to pubs and clubs whilst a lot of friends are still only 17. However starting Uni at nearly 19 may be better than at nearly 18.

I personally feel an October born child is quite old to defer and wouldn’t unless I had concerns about their development.

We deferred Feb born dc1 and it was absolutely the best decision for him. However p1 is very play based (dc2 is currently in p1) so I wouldn't defer an october born child with no additional needs or concerns.

Do you know any of the children he'd be going to school with? For example, dc1's best friend was a march birthday (so had no decision to make as it runs beginning of march til end of feb) so that was a factor in us choosing deferral. Also it's a small village school and there was a big difference the size of the intake (more than double the children in the year we sent him compared to the year he could have gone in).

What does nursery say? I’d be asking their thoughts. I think deferring can often be the right choice, but as you say he’ll only be a few weeks as a four year old. If you, and the nursery:childminder feel he’s ready emotionally and socially I’d be inclined to send him this year.

My ( adult ) daughter went at four, had her birthday in early October and was more than ready.

I have an early December kid and at the time didn't have the option to defer but I would have liked to. He is in ways quite mature and bright, maybe brought on by his older peers, but he was always quite emotionally immature for his class and for that reason I wish I'd given him more time. Also, now he doesn't enjoy school and isn't allowed to leave in summer as he has to stay on until xmas when he is 16 which is very frustrating. It's just easier being older.

I am a fan of deferral for children very young for the year and would defer if I had concerns child was not socially or emotionally mature enough to cope with school.
But I wouldn't defer an October born child just because I could. I would be concerned he would be so much more mature compared to the other children in nursery next year.

Does your husband know P1 is now mainly play based in Scotland?

Thanks all for the answers, it’s helpful to get different perspectives. I have friends who are early years teachers who have all said defer if it’s an option and that’s definitely influenced our decision making. To answer a few questions, he is bright but gets distracted easily with any kind of “formal” learning like reading or writing, but I think that’s probably normal for his age. When we first thought about it months ago I really didn’t think he would cope socially with P1 this year, he was very shy and found friendships difficult to navigate, but these last few months he’s started to gain confidence and is much happier. Nursery said they think he’d cope fine academically but socially would benefit from a deferred start, but again that was back in January. I have contacted
them to see if their thoughts have changed since then. I think my problem is that I’m going to worry either way, if I start him this year and he does struggle then I’ll feel terrible when we had the choice to give him an extra year. I wish they had a March intake so he could start next spring!
Anyway, thank you all for taking the time to read and reply, hopefully we can come to a decision over the weekend.

I deferred feb born dd - no brainier! December born dd wasn't deferred as wasn't free choice at the time. I'm on the fence about whether it would have benefited her. I'd not have deferred either as October birthdays

I've never known an October child be deferred. In our school they were always January or February birthdays.

Defer, every time. Did it for mine. No regrets. Being the oldest will always be a good thing.

On the other side of the teachers you’ve spoken to my SIL is a primary head and didn’t defer either of her two. Neither did the head of the primary school my kids went to. I think it’s more common to do so but def not universal. I’m kind of glad I didn’t have the choice with my youngest as I’d have been torn! Tbh I think he is where he would have been even if in the year below, as I said further up his issues run way deeper than being young for the year.

I didn’t defer a end of Jan born DD2 for a number of reasons mainly academically and socially she was ready (even nursery said this) she was already writing and reading well beyond her age level and all her nursery friends (6 of which were Jan/Feb birthdays were going so she would be the only one left). It was never a problem at school she coped great with the work etc too if her year throughout.

But, and here comes the big but, she chose to leave school the end of 5th year and go to college (another story) so she was 16 1/2, she then could have gone to uni at 17 1/2 but as she wanted to live out she felt she wasn’t ready so stayed at college another year. She will go this year at 18 1/2 so in actual fact will be going with her peer group as if she was deferred.

As a primary teacher myself and as an ASN teacher I would say if you are in any doubt defer. It will do no harm at all for them to be the eldest in their year.

P1 teacher here - I think there’s seldom much of a downside to deferring but there can definitely be downsides to not. You might not notice it in p1 but as they make their way through school, being more mature and socially able can be a bit of a super power.

If you decide to send him this year it sounds like it would probably be okay- his social skills combined with the play based learning approach in p1 should provide a smooth transition.

But if you can make deferral work for you (it can create challenges with nursery hours/ work etc) then I’d be tempted to do this. If it had been available, I would have had my kids in a forest school the year prior to starting school.

Good luck whatever your decision.
😀

There is a trend for deferring now because some parents perceive it to be an advantage but I don’t think I would for an October birthday as they are middle of the year group age wise anyway and primary 1 is very play based now anyway.

You have probably hear all the pros so I won’t repeat them but the cons I’ve heard from teacher friends are:
Being able to leave school at 16 before taking exams.
Being the first to go through puberty.
The pressure of being the oldest and some kids taking on a sort of mothering/ bossy role to younger ones.
If they look visibly older sometimes more is expected of them even subconsciously which can be difficult.
Peer pressure to buy alcohol for friends/ learn to drive to take all their friends about.
Consent issues if older than peers and in a relationship.
Being in different cohorts to classmates in out of school activities e.g. brownies instead of rainbows, football etc.
Potentially more mature than peers and feeling out of place as a result.

Either which way, good luck with your decision, I agree it many ways having the option to defer has made it much harder than before as now you will always wonder if you’ve made the right choice 🤦‍♀️.

Op search for the thread around November/December time. There was a poster this year who's October child was deferred and they were now 5 and bored in nursery. The poster was asking if it was possible to get them into P1 in January.

Personally I think unless your child has SEN or English as a second language or some other real reason I'd put them into school

They are trying to turn P1 into an extension of nursery, more play based etc more like England Reception except kids are 6months on average older than Reception kids and if you defer even older.