Deferring primary in Scotland

[hownowpurplecow]

Posting here as the Scotland boards are quiet. Just looking for some opinions really. DS1 is a late October birthday, we have the option to defer him starting P1 under the rules in Scotland brought in last year. My husband is very pro deferral, sees it as no disadvantage and lets DS have an extra year of play. I’m less sure, he’s bright, no developmental concerns, would turn 5 11 weeks after starting school so not youngest in the year. Most people I’ve spoken to say nobody regrets deferring but I still can’t shake my uncertainty? I don’t want to academically disadvantage him by sending him too soon, but I worry he could be socially disadvantaged as he gets older as he could potentially be a full year older than other kids in his year which would be more noticeable if he turned 13 in a class with 11 year olds? It would be much easier if they hadn’t brought in the new rules for deferring so I didn’t even have to think about it!

It depends what you mean by 'do better', for some parents this equates to giving them an advantage. Clearly if a child is developmentally delayed/close to cut off, or has missed nursery due to some other reason (eg illness) then there is more reasons to defer. The sad reality is that a lot of parents ARE doing it for the former reason, and also don't hide that fact.

You seem to think someone expressing a different view is 'completely determined to have an argument'.

Anyone with a funded nursery place in council nursery in our area gets a fully funded nursery place if they defer.

I am not sure how it works now in our area, as DC is a bit older, but it used to be:
Jan/Feb birthday - automatically allowed deferall
Dec or before birthday - not automatically allowed but in practice it was pretty much always granted
I am not sure how it works now with there being more demand for places and not necessarily more staff.
I don't think the option for deferral in itself is bad, it is there to help those who need it, but I have certainly see people abuse the system as a way of getting ahead.

All children who defer are entitled to funded early years childcare during their referral year.

OP you might find this useful

www.parentclub.scot/articles/can-my-child-defer-starting-school#:~:text=All%20parents%20and%20carers%20have,when%20they%20defer%20P1%20entry.

@DataPup totally agree kindergarten call it what you like is very similar to P1.

How many years to Danish have in primary and secondary school?

I put end of January born DD1 to school at 4 and a half, and it made no difference until secondary. The disparity between her peers in maturity is quite notable, and she is struggling with Nat 5 work. She is now 14 and an half (almost) and has just started S4, with many of her friends now 15 and a half. We may still have had these issues if she went at 5 and a half - we’ll never know. At the time, she was so bright and chatty for her age, it seemed cruel to keep her in nursery for another year.

My DD2 is also January born and I will be deferring her until 5 and a half, even if I think she is really ready for school.

By better I mean are capable of actually doing it. Ds1(not deferred) was young for his age. I think he was labelled as fidgety/ annoying (not a great teacher) and got really turned off of school. The pandemic was actually helpful as we found massive gaps in his education and got him on the right track. He has dyslexia but would mask not being able to do things with naughtiness. In hindsight he’d of done much better with another year in nursery and to start p1 closer to six.

Your situation sounds exactly like what the deferral system aims to help!

The eldest of our pre school children at nursery will be 5yrs 11 months old whereas our youngest leaving nursery to start school will be 4 yrs 6 months.

That is a huge age gap at that age.

im all for deferring Dec, Jan , Feb children if there is a need but Sept, Oct and Nov is just ridiculous if there is no ASN.

And, yet.

We found out after (Sep born) deferral that DD1 was autistic. It may not be obvious, diagnosed ASN at that point. I just knew she wasn't ready for P1, wouldn't be ready for S1 and needs more time before S5 Highers.

I think we would be far better saying school starts at 6 years old. I hope that is the direction Scotland is travelling in. This period of time is the transition to that end point.

I'm also a primary school teacher of 25 years experience. If you have doubts, defer. A good nursery will meet your child's needs. A good P7 teacher will do the same.

@Abitorangelooking Dylexia is his issue not age. He'll find his own away. Don't stress.
If its any comfort I was the youngest in my year in primary. School failed me, Miss Average, mediocre, not bad enough for dyslexia support, Average kid, not the bottom table or class, not the top either but I out earn 80% of the population.

Maybe being youngest and always having to work hard set me on the right path. Remember the only long term study I could find said the youngest out earn the oldest.

If they increase the start age they probably need to drop a year of primary or maybe bin 1st year.

Ludicrous that you'll have kids turning 16 at the start of 4th year. Apprenticeships want 16 year olds because they are cheaper.

Child benefit is meant to end at 18 yet you'll have kids turning 18 at the start of 6th year.

They can't push start age up without looking at the big picture.

I don't agree. What children need now is play. This was not true in the 1990s when I qualified. It's not about making education longer after the senior phase. It's about turning P1 into a Kindergarten using Frobel and Montessori principles to organise teaching and learning.

There is also a cost associated with having an extra year in nursery. Where is that coming from?

Schools are strapped for cash.

How is deferring Oct-Dec kids not about making education longer?
They are in nursery a full year longer than they would have been?
Leaving school a full year older than they would have been?

The money has to come from somewhere, nursery isn't free.

Yes, there is a cost. One worth paying. Every £1 invested before 8 is the best £ you can invest as a country. We are a wealthy country. One of the richest countries this planet has ever seen.

I would like you to see a return to teachers in the 3-5 sector. I think their withdrawal (and the withdrawal of ECPs in P1/P2) was a massive error.

It's still the same number of compulsory education years though. There is no change to that.

P1-P7 then S1-S4.

What we are expanding is the non-compulsory years.

But we are paying for the non-compulsary years plus childbenefit etc, effectively putting an extra year onto childhood.

How many countries don't start school to 6 and still have 13 years of schooling? And a 4 year honors degree?

If they want to raise the start age the WHOLE education system and funding needs looked at.

An extra year of childhood is a great idea.

More education is a great idea.

We are a rich country.

Hi OP, no I know you are not in England …I was merely comparing it to what it would be like here. Thoug I know know parents of April born children deferring ( who would start 1st Sept) here, where 2 years ago it was only August and of July born children deferred.

does funding still cover children deferred for 3 years post normal school leaving age? As get funding for extra nursery year? I am wondering if that is case in England and Scotland now think8mg about that.

if I could have had the funding for my children I would have deferred both …. More childhood, more advantage in class. However, the 3yrs funding say at college is ideal for a students who do a lower level course before a 2 year course.

As someone not planning to defer their January child, it does bother me greatly that she will be in a class with children potentially 18 months older than her. It doesn’t make sense. I shouldn’t have to defer my child because other people defer theirs but the system is disadvantaging my child who would otherwise be absolutely fine starting school with children who are actually the same age as her. If the Scottish government want to change the age of starting school this does not seem like the right approach to me.

Not deferring a January born child is utter madness. I urge you to seriously rethink this, if it is not already too late. You can't blame parents for choosing the right thing even if you can't see sense.

Your going to have to go something to convince me that an extra year messing in a sandpit is making a difference to kids at the end of primary school.
If it makes kids that much better and brighter then why do they still need 7 years in primary?

Meanwhile retirement gets pushed up and up.
The majority of boomers and older who benefited from retirement at 60/65 started work in their mid teens 14/15/16

Today's generation all seem to want to be in education until their 20s and moan about the lack of student grants and retirement getting pushed up towards 70.
The actual working lifespan is about the same.