Deferring primary in Scotland

[hownowpurplecow]

Posting here as the Scotland boards are quiet. Just looking for some opinions really. DS1 is a late October birthday, we have the option to defer him starting P1 under the rules in Scotland brought in last year. My husband is very pro deferral, sees it as no disadvantage and lets DS have an extra year of play. I’m less sure, he’s bright, no developmental concerns, would turn 5 11 weeks after starting school so not youngest in the year. Most people I’ve spoken to say nobody regrets deferring but I still can’t shake my uncertainty? I don’t want to academically disadvantage him by sending him too soon, but I worry he could be socially disadvantaged as he gets older as he could potentially be a full year older than other kids in his year which would be more noticeable if he turned 13 in a class with 11 year olds? It would be much easier if they hadn’t brought in the new rules for deferring so I didn’t even have to think about it!

I am really surprised to hear that you are Scottish. I have genuinely never come across a Scottish person that resents or is bothered about the ages of other children in the classroom.

@Awumminnscotland you're surprised she's in the top groups being as she's potentially over a year older than most of the others?
Deferral would stop being so attractive if everyone did it. I honestly only know of one September deferral, but this child missed so much nursery due to health related issues that it made sense to repeat some nursery/pre-school time.

Lots of folk I know were dismayed to hear how many deferred children, often well over a year older, were in their child's class.

It's not something many will say out loud because in the past 4/5 years ago people would assume a pre-Christmas deferred child had some reason.

If anyone really wants to dig deep the only survey I could find about 10 years ago on youngest vs oldest was a Scandinavian survey, I think it was Finland, that reckoned by the age of 30 the youngest quarter were out earning the oldest quarter of the year groups.

I'd love to know if that is replicated elsewhere.

No I'm not surprised she's in the top groups. As I said, there were a number of reasons we deferred her. For her specific reasons deferring gave her the opportunity to reach her potential which she is currently doing. She would have been disadvantaged otherwise.
I think everyone should be free to make the correct decision for their child. We deferred ours before it came I to the new rules and had to apply to do so to the Local authority. They obviously agreed and granted it. Others I know who have deferred for different reasons don't see the same academic progress but are happy that they've made the right decision.

Did you think I wasn't Scottish because my Username isn't Scottish sounding? 🫣

I thought you weren't Scottish because of the views that you were expressing on this thread. As I said I haven't come across anyone who lives in Scotland with those views.

Its nothing to do with your username. I am not actually a cat.

@Awumminnscotland I understand wanting the best for your child but those who defer just to get advantage are inadvertently potentially disadvantaging children who are starting school when they are supposed to. Would you suggest everyone should defer, even if your child would likely then lose her advantage?

You've surveyed everyone in Scotland?

You do realise that most countries in the the world do not start school until at least 6? which is certainly the case for the whole of Europe and in Scandinavia it is 7.

Danish children might not start what they call school until the year they turn 6, but pretty much all of them are in full time kindergarten from age 3. Play based learning and learning simple concepts like letters and numbers. It's not hugely different to reception/P1

Now, now, no need to get arsey.

I said - "I haven't come across anyone who lives in Scotland with those views"

I did not say - "I have surveyed everyone in Scotland"

The arseyness started by asking if I was actually Scottish simply because I actually expressed a fairly commonly held view.

Anyway, if I had a pound for the amount of times I've heard 'oh (s)he's really good at reading, knows his/her numbers, communicates well, is really sociable, loves sports and attends lots of clubs.....but we're thinking of deferring him/her so he/she has 'the best chance''.

That's not what deferral was ever meant for.

Yes.

@Leidenschaft24 okey dokey - leaving you to it 😳

She doesn't have an advantage over others. She is now on an even footing because she was older than 5 and how she was then not because she's older than others.

Leaving me to what?
Explaining the reality of the situation?

I don't really understand this comment.
She has had the advantage of another year's education surely.

She had an extra year of nursery class. Some children are disadvantaged through circumstance. An extra year of nursery class gave her the chance to mature socially and emotionally. I don't see how she's had an extra year of education. They didn't at that point do phonics or much number. It was all play.

You have a different perspective. That's fair enough. I haven't come across your perspective before. That is interesting. It hasn't changed my mind. But you seem completely determined to have an argument. And I am not biting. So I am leaving you to it.

Equity of opportunity That's what she was given. I think making the starting age for school at almost 6 gives everyone a greater chance to be on an even playing field so I agree with Scotlands new rules.
The nursery places available make that more achievable for many.
We made decisions to make it work for our child.

I have also heard this sort of sentiment many many times (in a well-to-do area of Edinburgh, no surprise)

And those saying ‘in Europe they start school later’ - they might not CALL it school, but it is play based learning exactly of the type all P1 lessons are.

I will be very very interested in seeing the international learning comparisons in 10 / 15 years. We know all the interventions the SNP have done up until now have been frankly disastrous for the rigour of Scottish education and I suspect allowing deferrals of NT August children will go the same way. This is because I think it will leave behind all the more disadvantaged children who will not be deferred, and massively widen the education gap

I think it’s really unfair that children with later birthdays get less preschool education. My August and March children got two full years of school nursery. November child would have only got a year and a half. By deferring he got more.

Some children do better with a bit more time in nursery/ free play environment. Anecdotally teachers have told me it’s easier when they go into P1 being a bit older as they are much more capable of better listening/ sitting. Boys especially.

Actually in my experience, the more affluent the area the higher the rate of deferrals. It certainly is in my neck of the woods. The non deferred children are more from working class families desperate to get their child into school to stop the sky high private nursery fees.

That’s exactly agreeing with my point