Purge the Labour party of the lefties

[Viviennemary]

Just seen on BBC news that Labour wants a purge of the left. Bring it on I say. It was unelectable under Corbyn and that idiotic Momentum lot. Why doesn't Diane Abbott just retire gracefully. But loòks like its all going to cause a big row with the Tories rubbing their hands in glee. Will they ever learn.

I'm sorry, but you're wrong. It's worked here after WWII, it worked in the USA in response to the great depression in the 1930s.

Like the USA we print our own money, why would a budgetary deficit limit what we can spend? We can spend before raising revenue and increase that revenue precisely because we've spent on the areas that need investment . The obstacle to spending isn't the deficit, it's inflation.

That's the fundamental misunderstanding that people like Balls, Reeves etc have and why Labour won't deliver for the country.

Labour Party is racist toward black, brown and women

Better tell that to Lammy, Reeves and Mahmood plus the 14 women out of 31.

It's really upsetting to see Starmers labour wash its hands of the amazing job Corbyn's labour did to inspire and encourage the youth to vote. That Corbyn managed to raise so much from small donations spoke volumes. Yet all that is gone and they're back to accepting billionaire donations. How are people falling for this?

@BlueJamSandwich I am not wrong. We had the Marshall plan money which essentially set up the nhs. I know that spending your way out of a recession is a classic response but it’s hugely more difficult now for the UK. Plus we don’t actually have a recession. We’ve maxed out the credit card. I suggest you get up to date and read research from the IFS. History lessons won’t get us anywhere now. Just look at the NHS, benefits, education, debt etc. Our expenditure has changed vastly, even since 2010, let alone 1945 or before!

How did the USA avoid the covid hit to their economy that we suffered? Could it have been their massive fiscal spending intervention?

@HelenHen Young people, when they are students at school or uni, are mostly receiving their education and living expenses from others. Many haven’t paid 1p of income tax yet or NI! Of course they want a free ride and aren’t sophisticated enough to know that money for services has to be earned or repaid if it’s borrowed. They don’t understand they will be paying if massive debts are racked up. Like many they want jam today and hang the consequences. Except the consequences will actually be a disaster for them.

The big issue to grapple with is that the voters who would be paying for such generosity don’t want to. They did recognise an unelectable party when they saw one. Starmer gets this. There is no point in a political party being a mere pressure group in continual opposition. It has to govern or what’s the point? It can never do a single thing it wants to do.

@BlueJamSandwich The USa didn’t have a furlough scheme. It doesn’t have a NHS. They are a massive economy and less generous benefits. If you don’t work you don’t get much in the USA. We have a different attitude here.

They probably also had more money readily available. What does their borrowing look like in relation to their GDP?

A centre left moderate like Ed Milliband was labelled Red Ed for the crime of being to the left of his war mongering brother.

The problem with this widely accepted truism is that it assumes the political culture of a country is a singular, stable characteristic that can never change over time.

That's obviously wrong in general. It's particularly wrong when you consider the unprecedented challenges that climate change and the slow demise of global capitalism place before us. We can keep insisting that we will only consider solutions from a narrow range of political possibilities because that's all we've ever done before, and that's "who we are" - and carry on implementing policies that don't work while things continue to get worse. Or we can look for new solutions appropriate to the new problems.

This not just about idealism. In the most unidealistic, practical sense, most people want to survive and want society to survive so that they can. Policies and solutions then need to be found that make such survival possible, even if they involve extending the political comfort zone.

Hmm. Surely the voters that would be paying tax are the ones with an education? 10% higher earnings with every year of education post 16 years old according to some estimates.

It's not that we can't afford to fund education, it's that we can't afford not to.

If GDP per capita is higher now than in any of the years when we had free education for life why can't we afford it now?

I think Diane Abbott has often been treated badly certainly by the press and by the party but Starmer can not appear weak against the left of the party

Right now the left are doing what they do best and that is handing the Tories ammunition to use against Labour they have an amazing knack of keeping Labour in opposition and not much else

Starmer has made the party electable, we could have a Labour PM very soon. Corbyn and his comrades 🙄 caused so much damage the party was a disgrace under him and this the Tories will remind the public at every opportunity

Unfortunately Rayner has played straight into the lefts hands and the Tories are laughing they absolutely love her she is so predictable

God discussions like this make me despair.

Most people, Labour members and not, are perfectly capable of understanding that the "far left" and centre left need to work together, find solutions from across the range of "left" that are appropriate to both left wing principles and the need for electability. Most people are capable of discussing the issues involved and arriving cooperatively - via democratic processes within Labour party branches etc - at solutions.

This is why a considerable majority of Labour members - who must therefore have included many who supported Jeremy Corbyn - voted for Keir Starmer to be party leader. He appeared to be the right person to take the best of the party's policies and principles and present and advance them in a politically pragmatic way. Unfortunately it was all lies, and once he had power the "purge" started, contrary to everything he said in order to get it.

The problem is not whether Labour should be left, far left, centre left, put-your-left-hand-in-and-you-shake-it-all-about or anything else. The problem is that "purging" - the suppression of dissent, the suspension of the party's own democratic processes, the blatant exercise of dictatorial power from the top and the complete disregard for the most basic natural justice or logic in disciplinary processes - is considered the right way to achieve it.

Blair didn't do that. For all he is vilified by the left, he at least took the party to the right by making the arguments, patiently having the discussions and winning them. Corbyn didn't do it either, he did the opposite - attempting to increase the robustness of grass roots party democracy. Maybe this is the only thing they had in common.

Something fundamental has died in the Labour party under Starmer, and it's got nothing to do with whether the left or the right "wins". It's got to do with what it means to exercise democracy, beyond hauling your arse off the sofa to get to a polling station ocne every five years and choose between two parties that are basically the same as each other.

Try reading about how Diane Abbot's case was handled without thinking about whether you like her or are on her "side" or not, but just about whether that's a good way to go about administering a political party or treating an elected representative generally. That after all is how justice is supposed to work - to be objective, and accord the same basic rights and considerations to everyone. Then consider that it's far from a one-off: the entire Labour party disciplinary machine operates this way, as a plaything for factional warfare by autocrats.

It's so sad that people actually think this is OK, as long is it ends up putting the people they like in power (or rather, what seems to be more the point, keeping the people they dislike out of power).

Starmer has made the party electable because he might as well be a Tory. I don't want a Tory lite labour. Even if his dad was a tool maker as he likes to bang on about. He's about as WC as the bloody Royal family. Not one party gives a toss about the WC. And any politician who dares to speak with a WC accent is made out to be stupid. This country will always be ruled by upper class twits who have no clue what life is like for the many. So fuck labour and their centrist selling out bollocks.

How was the party a disgrace under Corbyn exactly? Can you give examples?

The anti semitism
MP’s having to have police protection for speaking against Corbyn
The aggressive nature of Momentum (experienced this myself)

Is that enough for you

Tbh, once they put the selection of party leaders into the hands of party members, it was more likely we end up with nut jobs. And it’s ridiculous to call Keir Starmer a Tory. If he were a Tory he would’ve joined the Tory party. Most people aren’t obsessed with class war or rules on party membership. Or if someone is a pure enough socialist. Or what’s happening in Palestine above all else happening in the world. They want decent education for their kids, a health service, functioning transport and to be securely housed without either corruption or factional politics.

@HRTQueen there was a report proving the claims of Corbyn being anti semitic were false and purely used as a distraction tactic.

People can’t complain about the NHS, education etc being under funded, cost of living crisis while also completely dismissing the Corbyn era manifesto. It’s hypocritical.

Oh come on the Labour party want to win. Get a Sir to head the party and the little people will vote. And people should be obsessed with class because in the end politics is always about class.

Absolutely agree HesterRoon

Labour have to be more to the centre to win an election to not appeal to a few who want a real Labour Party 🙄 so be it the floating and centre voters are the votes that are needed for Labour to win an election even in this election

and you have that much faith in reports ? What about the number of Jewish MP’s that expressed their fears and concerns. I would believe them over any report

there was a report proving the claims of Corbyn being anti semitic were false and purely used as a distraction tactic

That is demonstrably not true. Not a single word apart from "there was a report".

I think the majority of people admire someone who has not come from a privileged background who through hard work has achieved what Starmer has rather than those who have come from privilege who go into politics and take it upon themselves to know what wc people want