Worried about my brother

[Cooper77]

My brother is 47 and lives alone with my mother. He has always lived there. He suffers from depression and anxiety, though he won’t see a doctor. He’s never really worked and spends most of his time playing video games. My mother has enabled this because it suits her. My dad died ten years ago, and she has no other family (apart from me).

What worries me is what’s going to happen if my mother gets ill or dies. They really stick their heads in the sand about this. She is 77 and in good health, but it’s just a question of time. The problem is that he’s never been officially diagnosed. He has no label or statement and has never claimed any benefits, so he doesn’t appear on any government records. He just lives off my mother (who inherited a bit of life insurance when dad died). He also has a blank CV and no real work experience or training. I’m worried what will happen if:

1. My mother has a stroke or develops a serious illness and has to go into a nursing home. If the house has to be sold to pay for her care, will my brother be homeless? Does he have any rights to stay there?

2. My mother dies. If that happens, we would sell the house (he says he doesn’t want to live there when mum has gone) and divide everything down the middle. That means he’d come out with just enough to buy a flat somewhere. But then what? Say mum dies when he’s 56 and she’s 86. How is he going to pay for food, heating, electricity, etc? Who is going to give him a job at 56 with no qualifications and a blank CV?!

Also, he has paid no National Insurance, so won’t qualify for a state pension.

I’d appreciate any feedback, in part because I will show my brother your replies. Hopefully they will motivate him to do something.

If your mum died then he would have to claim benefits to live. He would have to decide whether he will go to the doctor and get himself signed off as unfit to work ( this may be difficult if he has never declared his health conditions previously, if he has any ? ), or whether he is going to make the job centre make him look for 35 hours of work a week in return for his meagre benefits to live off which will barely cover food and essentials.. Either he is too ill to work or he is just not motivated to work. You would be surprised how may people actually live this way. i was dealing with one of my elderly work clients a few weeks ago to help with benefit work and she told me she has a son living with her who rarely leaves his room and they pay for everything for him. He won't see his GP either but also is not able to function normally. Like you she was worried sick what will happen when they are no longer there.
Your mum will be missing out on things like single occupancy discount on council tax because he lives with her yet he makes no contribution.
If your brother turns state pension age with no NI credits to his name then he would get pension credit, there are a lot of people who have never worked and whom get the same in pension credit as those who get a basic state pension and have worked for 35+ years !!!

If your mum has to go into a care home, the property would be disregarded as your brother lives in it too - so that’s a good thing.

I think he needs to see now which benefits he is entitled to, and take things from there.

It's my understanding that the house would only be disregarded if the relative is over 60 or disabled?

If your mother goes into care the property value will be taken into account. I think that another family member living there will be expected to move out as the property is your mothers. If they have a disability ie they are officially diagnosed and are in receipt of PIP then it can be disregarded.

If your mother puts the property into trust eg for her children, then it cannot be taken into account for care fees, but she would need to do this early enough that it does not look like it was done for the purpose of avoiding care fees.

If your mother passes away while your brother is of working age he will be able to sign on for universal credit and will be expected to look for work. If he is officially diagnosed and in receipt of PIP he may not be expected to work. However note that universal credit includes housing costs eg rent, and is rarely enough to actually cover what rentals cost.

Bottom line is that your mother could look into safeguarding the property via a trust now, and your brother needs to get an official diagnosis so he is on the system as disabled. If he gets PIP it makes a lot of things easier as it's a gateway benefit to being recognised as disabled.

forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6486757/property-disregard-rules-for-care-home-fees-if-a-family-member-lives-in-the-property

Thanks for the replies everyone.

I see what you mean about him being officially diagnosed, but I can’t see that happening. He won’t go to the doctors, and I’m not sure what they’d say if he did. Truth is, he could work. I mean, he’s mildly depressed and prone to anxiety and probably on the spectrum, but so are lots of people. In fact, I’d say the majority of people I know are anxious and mildly depressed. What I’m saying is, there’s nothing obviously or seriously wrong with him.

He often talks about looking for work and moving out, but then nothing happens. Where would he stand if he did get a little flat in a year or so and my mother funded him (i.e gave him his inheritance) but then got ill and went into a nursing home? Would the house have to be sold?

Over the years he has dropped all his friends and stopped socialising. He says he can’t be bothered (which is sort of true), but I think it’s also because he’s so ashamed of his life. People think he sponges off my mum and that he’s “a parasite” (as someone once called him). But it also suits my mother. My dad died ten years ago and my mother has never lived on her own. She’d been with my dad since was 16, and I don’t know how she’d cope if he did leave. But then I don’t know how he’ll cope down the line when mum dies. They’re trapped in this awful co-dependent mess.

There's nothing 'apparently' wrong with him. But there is, because otherwise he'd be doing something.

He would need support to move from his current state. Would he go for counseling? I'd push 'getting a happier life' with him rather than the job thing. He needs support to get more out of life.
Hopefully he doesn't smoke weed...
Does he do any cooking or grocery shopping?

Your mother needs to address this in some way or other. Can she see that she is sabotaging him by not encouraging independent skills?

Yes, you’re right that this isn’t an ideal situation. What I mean is I can’t see a doctor giving him a label that entitles him to live on disability benefits. And I wouldn’t blame them. He could work and pay tax. It’s just easier for him not to. He’s perfectly happy living this way, and it suits my mother as well. The problems will come further down the line when he’s a 50-something with no life skills and no savings and no job and my mum dies.

You’re quite right that she’s sabotaging him (though, like I said, he’s pretty content living this way). I can’t talk to her though. She’s frightened of being on her own. My dad was quite controlling and they never really socialised much, so when he died she was pretty isolated. She also an only child with no siblings and I live far away. He’s all she’s got. If she was 57 instead of 77 it would be different. But it’s hard to make an isolated 77-year-old suddenly live on her own for the first time.

An able bodied man gaming his life away and living off the taxpayer, shocking. Why should he be entitled to benefits? You need to make it clear you won’t be giving up your life to enable him OP.

Thanks for your message. Problem is, I don’t think he is unfit to work. He’s just a bit depressed and anxious - and also very introverted. There are lots of anxious, depressed introverts who hate their job, but they still drag themselves into work. I wouldn’t blame a GP for refusing to sign him off.

Quite. He’s a grown man and can sort out the mess he’s got himself into. It might be the making of him, who knows, either way it isn’t your problem and he needs to break the cycle of relying on whatever female relative to sort him out.

I do feel kind of angry with my mother. When my brother was in his teens and twenties, he had really, really bad social anxiety and depression. Though he never went to a GP or a therapist, I don’t think he could have worked. He’s nowhere near so bad now. In fact, he’s a very different person. If she encouraged him, I really think he could get a job and live a normal life. But it suits her to have him at home. She’s old and frightened and has never lived on her own.

Most people don't want to spend all day at home gaming with their elderly mother.
That's not usual behavior.

He's never worked?
So what has he done?

It's been 30 years since he left school.

We have to curb our notions of such a person getting up off a chair and going to work anytime soon.
It simply won't happen without serious input and help on several fronts from professionals like counsellors, social worker or similar.

But you can't help a person who is not asking
for help. Have you any neighbors or friends around where he lives who could get him involved in volunteering or something?

I do see what you mean. My husband says the same. But to be fair to my brother I think he worries about my mum. I don’t think he feels like he can leave. And because he feels like he can’t leave home, he’s got no motivation to get out there and work. If there was the prospect of living in his own flat, having more a sex life and social life, etc, he’d have a motivation to get out there. But he’s trapped. And the fact that he’s trapped kind of suits him, if you see what I mean, so it’s like going round in circles.

We have a similar situation.

However, the parent has decided to leave almost everything to the resident child as they need it more.

It's actually a bit irritating- we were absolutely planning to make sure he was ok, and are currently paying into his pension as he didn't have anything.
Now I'm feeling a bit less generous- and a bit worried as the other sibs aren't aware and may be upset when it happens.

So she may not be planning 50/50 at all. And the house may be kept intact as he's never lived anywhere else.

He will be assessed as vulnerable- a man who hasn't worked, hasn't claimed, hasn't existed much outside the home is vulnerable whether diagnosed or not.

It's a real shame that he wasn't encouraged to fly the nest & have his own life. I hope there is a way to coax him out!

Hi, in that case maybe your mother and your brother need counselling to untangle the co-dependence going on. Your mother has done him no favours by enabling it. :-(

There is some good advice upthread on counseling, volunteering etc

Is he any good at IT - could he do a coding course or something? There are more job opportunities these days for extreme introverts.

I doubt your mum has done this out of malice, although her behaviour is very selfish!
It sounds like she never learned to properly fend for herself and as a consequence has imposed the same on your brother, or something like that? Had he a different personality he might have had more internal motivation to become independent.
I hope he can be helped to find a tougher version of himself.

I think he would if it wasn’t for my mother. She enables his poor mental health. If he had to do something - I mean if it was a case of work or starve - then he probably would. I’m sure he doesn’t want to. He has a literature MA (from the local uni), but never showed any interest in a career. In fact, he seems genuinely happy just sitting around reading and smoking and playing video games. Back when he was in his 20s, I think he’d have had a breakdown if he’d been forced out into the world. He really did have bad social anxiety back then (possibly from smoking weed in his teens). But now he’d probably cope (just). I’m not sure if she thinks she’s taking care of him, or if she’s just being selfish and making sure she’s not alone. It’s probably a mix of the two.

I wonder if some counselling to give him an objective view of the dynamics of the situation would help?
I guess at any sign of him pulling away your mum will reel him back in, maybe it's only the shock of having the rug pulled from under him that will really motivate him?

That's a really tricky one. I have a disabled brother living at home.
We have been told about a general summary of will.
House will be left to 4 of us siblings but we're not to sell it. My brother can live there until he dies. We're all allowed use the house if parents die should a marriage break up or someone become homeless. Any sibling can live in the house but no partners allowed which means it's an open door for any sibling who needs an inviting place to stay.
I really feel sorry for your brother. It must be terrifying for him as he seems vulnerable.

Do you have children? Could you come to some kind of agreement whereby he can stay in the home but your children will definitely inherit your half?

He probably does want to stay in the home but not confident enough to verbalise this. I know of a man who was forced out of his family home and ended up in a homeless shelter.

He gets no dole? Why doesn't he make use of benefits?

Do you think he will care for your mother in older age? It's beneficial for him to be there right now for her sake but he needs security when she passes.

My bf has a relative like this although the relative is a little younger and has a job (that he's constantly trying to give up). He still lives at home, has few life skills and is fundamentally self absorbed and selfish. He has no friends, no significant other and no social life even online. I just don't know what is going to happen once the relative's parents need care (he won't provide it) or pass away. We've tried to encourage talks about what might happen for years now and nothing has moved.

I would be worried if I were you that the expectation is that your DB lives with you. Your DM could live another 20 years and then things will be worse. Has he expressed what his plan is for when your DM is no longer around considering he has said he doesn't want to live there then?

If the house is sold he might be able to get into retirement housing/sheltered housing from age 55, it can be good value (as long as it’s resale not first sale (eg not new build mccarthy and stone).

Good idea about volunteering, eg helping older people with internet perhaps where he will use his life experience. It may be that he becomes your mother’s carer and gradually learns to do things and that that will be a socially useful role. For now, anything that would get him engaging with the wider world would seem a good place to start.
Multigenerational households are growing in number again in uk, I guess it help to be clear what exactly the problems might be for him now and in the future. Maybe he mostly likes his life for now. how much is it just that it isn’t a life you would enjoy?

Your mum and brother are happily living together and need each other. Why do you want to upset that arrangement now and make both of them unhappy and struggling for the next ten years or more?

All you need to do is actively encourage your brother to find a suitable job and start taking on more responsibilities so he will be prepared for the future.