Worried about my brother

[Cooper77]

My brother is 47 and lives alone with my mother. He has always lived there. He suffers from depression and anxiety, though he won’t see a doctor. He’s never really worked and spends most of his time playing video games. My mother has enabled this because it suits her. My dad died ten years ago, and she has no other family (apart from me).

What worries me is what’s going to happen if my mother gets ill or dies. They really stick their heads in the sand about this. She is 77 and in good health, but it’s just a question of time. The problem is that he’s never been officially diagnosed. He has no label or statement and has never claimed any benefits, so he doesn’t appear on any government records. He just lives off my mother (who inherited a bit of life insurance when dad died). He also has a blank CV and no real work experience or training. I’m worried what will happen if:

1. My mother has a stroke or develops a serious illness and has to go into a nursing home. If the house has to be sold to pay for her care, will my brother be homeless? Does he have any rights to stay there?

2. My mother dies. If that happens, we would sell the house (he says he doesn’t want to live there when mum has gone) and divide everything down the middle. That means he’d come out with just enough to buy a flat somewhere. But then what? Say mum dies when he’s 56 and she’s 86. How is he going to pay for food, heating, electricity, etc? Who is going to give him a job at 56 with no qualifications and a blank CV?!

Also, he has paid no National Insurance, so won’t qualify for a state pension.

I’d appreciate any feedback, in part because I will show my brother your replies. Hopefully they will motivate him to do something.

Yes, I agree. When people live like that, they exist in a kind of bubble, where time zips by and nothing changes. He's OK now. In fact, he's perfectly happy smoking, listening to music and reading all day. (He's a likeable person btw – kind, easy going, etc.) I don't believe he'd be happier if he had a job and a place of his own. On the contrary, he'd probably find a full-time job hellish after living the way he has.

But it's like he's on a sinking ship. It would be better if he jumped into the sea now, at 47, and learned to swim, than wait until he's in his 50s, or even 60s, and mum dies. When that happens, the bubble will burst and he'll be flung out into the real world. The house is very pleasant – with fields all around it. It will be a heck of a shock at, say, 58, to not only have to suddenly find a job, but also have to move into a small flat on a big housing estate. He needs to find a way of coping now.

I don't think he does want to stay in the house when my mother dies. He always says he couldn't bear to live there on his own.

Could you tell me a bit about your friend and what happened? My biggest fear is that my mother becomes ill and requires round the clock care, then the house has to be sold to pay the fees and he's homeless. Because he isn't registered as unfit to work, so far as the authorities are concerned he's just a sponger living in someone' else's house.

I watched a documentary series once on debt collectors. It's scary how quickly people can be made homeless – people who've worked and saved, and have no addiction problems or anything like that. Why should my brother be any different? He doesn't seem to grasp this. Probably because he's got so used to other people taking care of him.

I think his vague idea is that mum dies in her sleep at 88. We then sell the house and divide up any savings and he goes off somewhere, buys a cosy flat, gets a casual job stacking shelves, and lives out the rest of his life that way. But life isn't like that. First of all, my mother could have a stroke, or develop Alzheimers, or something, and require specialist, round the clock care. That means a nursing home, which means very expensive fees, which means her savings being taken, and possibly the house being sold. I have no idea where he'd stand (need to look into this), but there are plenty of people in his situation who really do end up homeless. Happens all the time. It isn't just drug addicts who end up on the streets.

But even if my mother does die at home and he inherits enough, he talks in far too casual and vague a way about moving out, buying a flat, getting a job, etc. I had it out with him a bit on Sunday. Let's say mum is 86 when she dies, and he's 56. Imagine being a 56-year-old man who has always lived in the same comfy house, has never worked, has no saving and no CV. The shock of suddenly having to move out and buy a flat and live on his own will be hard enough. But to have to find a job on top of that will be even worse. And even if he could find something in a garden centre, or stacking shelves, or whatever, he has no savings and no friends. Lots of people live hard, lonely lives, but they've done so for years and have learned to cope. He'll be thrown out into the world suddenly.

I'm in a similar situation except mum is now in hospital and I'm having to apply for guardianship. My brother lived with both parents for a number of years and has lived with mum for fifteen years since dad died. He walked out of three jobs because he could. Mum enabled/infantilised him. He's now in his 60s and takes no responsibility for his life. Indeed, he used mum's bank account to pay for bills after she was hospitalised. They had a very toxic relationship and each was as bad as the other. He claims he will buy a houseboat when mum dies. However her flat will be taken into consideration when she moves to a nursing home and he might need to be evicted, according to my lawyer, despite being over 60. He plays the incompetent card all the time and I have no time nor respect for him as he's leaving all the administration to me. I suggest you contact a lawyer to give you impartial advice

We have an acquaintance who is exactly the same. We'll call her Jane.

She must be about 41-42, and although she went off to university, graduated with a good degree, and then worked for about 18 months, she's never done a thing since.
It was never clear why she stopped working. It seemed like she just got bored of it... She's said vague things in the past about her mental health, but when it suits her, she's full of the joys of spring.
She still lives with both parents, in her childhood bedroom. Her parents had her later in life, are pushing 80, and neither sound in very good health, and no longer drive (she has never driven as far as I know).
As far as we can tell, she seems to spend her days at the family computer, obsessing over a band she likes (but hasn't seen live in years) and kids tv shows from the 80s and 90s. And writing the occasional bit of poor fan fiction.
I don't think she has much money of her own, she's just living off parents pensions.

There is a much older half-brother I believe, but I don't think there's much relationship there. He's rarely mentioned. But of course, when the parents die, he's going to want his share of the house... We've no idea what will happen to Jane, but it's a car crash we're curious to see! In Jane's case, it seems like it's all entirely self-inflicted, and enabled by her parents. Certainly mine would never have put up with it!

But it's like he's on a sinking ship. It would be better if he jumped into the sea now, at 47, and learned to swim, than wait until he's in his 50s, or even 60s, and mum dies. When that happens, the bubble will burst and he'll be flung out into the real world. The house is very pleasant – with fields all around it. It will be a heck of a shock at, say, 58, to not only have to suddenly find a job, but also have to move into a small flat on a big housing estate. He needs to find a way of coping now
@Cooper77
I agree completely.
My concern would be that he didn't develop the grit/ /determination /willpower when he was young enough to force himself to do things that he knew would be unpleasant and now he will never be able to catch up.
Maybe he never had it in him to force himself when he was younger but had your mother been tougher/differently minded she might have turfed him out and he would have had no choice. It would have been a sink or swim situation but when he was younger he might have had the ability to swim.
Now that he's older his ability to change will be reduced.
Seems to me it's not really anyone's fault it's just what happens with certain personality types and situations?
I hated living at home with my parents and was desperate to leave. I left at 18. My own children also left a similar age and I was rather relieved. I can't imagine wanting to stay in the nest all my life or have someone else spend their life in my nest 🤷🏼‍♀️

You sound like a really nice person. I think that there are many people like your brother - they can't seem to cope with the outside world and unfortunately, they are often enabled by other family members. Their world then just narrows down and becomes even more frightening.

There are so many similarities with my situation here. My brother is 45 and I worry so much about how he will cope when my mum is no longer able to look after him or dies. My dad is still alive but there is cognitive decline there so he can't support him anymore.
My brother does actually have a job which is a challenge for him but we've had long hellish periods of him being unemployed. He has a council flat but needs my mum to essentially run his life as he can't manage his life admin, running his car, paying bills etc without support. He also has no friends due to extreme social anxiety and so relies on my mum for all his emotional support and is always down and depressed about how awful his life is etc. He's had counselling before but he never puts in any effort himself to make changes so things stay the same.
I worry massively about coping with him in the future as he has no other support system other than my mum and I just don't have the capacity to run his life for him and support him with all the problems and issues and emotional stuff. We also don't have a good relationship and I find him very difficult which doesn't help!
Sorry for hijacking OP. You've had some good advice from others and I can resonate with some of what you've said there.

Like you OP, I also worry about the sudden change for him when my mum dies. He relies on her so much and has no other support system. We really need to be trying to put things in place now but it's hard to broach as I find his depressive tone and constant talk about how awful everything is, so difficult (as we've been having the same conversations for 30 years re how awful his life is).

I meant to say, he got an ASD diagnosis at 33 but he hides it well. Sorry for the multiple posts!

This is true. A huge number of people go through their lives without working and in the end, the system picks them up and gives them the same money they would have got for working a basic job. I work in the NHS and I see it all the time.

This.

He sounds like a right catch.. he's sponging off your mum, and then plans on sponging off the government.

Of course he spends his time playing video games.

Sounds like a really enmeshed relation too and your mother is party to blame for enabling such awful behaviour. It's sad that she was controlled and she's frightened of being on her own but that's no excuse to stop your child from excelling in life and being a normal, working member of the community. The life insurance won't last forever either.

They both need to sort themselves out. But they won't, they'll expect the tax payer and probably you, to deal with it all.

Your brother sounds bone idle. No doubt any future partner will want to be involved, but he probably says he doesn't want one anyway. Even if he does get a partner, it'll be someone else he can cock lodge from.

No doubt any future partner will not want to be involved that should be

You are making me very glad that we told our son with ASD from about age 22 that he couldn't still be living with us at 30.

With a solid deadline to plan for, he did manage to get a full-time job and move out into a rental at 27. It's not been easy, but he's mostly coping.

His progress went from occasional online work, to one day a week volunteering while getting some useful counselling, then a temporary outdoor job, then a 'might as well apply' full-time role. He then moved out six months later. Little steps.

If your brother plans to get a 'little job' in later life, he should aim to do that now, before he needs it. He can call it working round caring needs if that makes him feel better.

I think the likelihood is that when his mother passes away he will try to draw @Cooper77 into the role previously fulfilled by his mother.
Hopefully she will be able to side step this and avoid sacrificing herself to him.
I think I would try to have some frank conversations with him, if only so that I could be sure I had done all I could to warn and prepare him.

We worry about what will happen. My bf's relative's parents have commented that the relative becomes their sibling's responsibility. Then it's vague noises about him renting. But how? He's never rented, lived alone, paid a bill, gone on holiday without his parents, had any kind of relationship or friendship and he cannot drive. He does nothing and goes nowhere. He's always got an excuse for not living his life

Like you say it will be hard to adjust now but with each passing year it will get harder. It would be better for this relative to do it now whilst his parents are alive and there is some support.

I find it incredulous that he doesn't want more. Life is so short. But it's easier for him and that's all he sees.

I see why you feel that way. But he isn't a horrible or selfish person by nature. He's never claimed benefits, and has often said he never would as it's unfair. Also, I know he feels guilty about not working. When he was young (teens and 20s) he had awful mental health problems, largely triggered (I suspect) by smoking weed in his teens. So during those crucial years, when he should have moved out, begun a career, saved money, etc, he was a mess. In his 30s, he began to improve (went to the gym, ate healthily, etc), and is now a different person. But during that time my dad died, I married and moved away, and my mum had a bit of a breakdown (she's on Prozac). He isn't my mother's physical carer, but in a way he is her emotional carer. He cheers her up, takes her out when she'd down, that sort of thing. On the one hand, he doesn't work or forge a life of his own because he worries about her being lonely (she's got used to him being there since dad died, that's the problem), but at the same time it suits him not to have to work.

When you talk to your mother about this, what does she say? How does she want him to be supported when she goes?

Yes, I do worry about this. He'll be like a confused child. He talks in this casual, vague way about selling the house, buying a flat, getting a job, etc, but he won't have a clue. Not only will he be processing the grief of losing mum AND having to leave the family home, on top of that he knows f-all about real life. I mean about the tedious, mundane stuff like insurance, council tax, paying bills, etc.

What I can’t understand is why he thinks he’ll be able to get a job then if he can’t now? What is he thinking will change?

It's a conversation I avoid. In general, she's a good, loving, and selfless person. Indeed, she's one of the least selfish people I know (she worked with disadvantaged/troubled boys, many of whom still send her xmas cards, and who she refers to as "my lads"). She was devoted to her own parents, and it was the burden of caring for them that (partly) triggered her depression.

But when it comes to this situation she's more selfish and is sticking her head in the sand. She never talks about growing old, and never talks about dying. My partner's mum, on the other hand, constantly talks about death and urges her kids to have their own lives and not to worry about her because she isn't frightened, etc. It's a huge relief for him and his sisters. They feel free in a way that my brother doesn't.

Actually, I think shame also plays a part. He is ashamed to be a 47-year-old man who lives with his mum, and I suspect he worries what potential work colleagues would think.

I think he could get a job now. But it's

1. The fear of leaving my mother on her own all the time and of her mental health deteriorating, especially in the winter (he's got used to being her mental health carer, in a way). If he'd been working since his 20s, she'd be used to spending each day on her own.

2. The shame of living at home with his mum, and what his work colleagues will think

3. Not having to work because my mother provides him with food and housing

When she dies, all those obstacles will be removed.

Actually, I think shame also plays a part. He is ashamed to be a 47-year-old man who lives with his mum

Far enough, but why would it be any easier to get a job as a 57-year-old man who has only ever lived with his mother?

He could try doing some care work or volunteering with elderly people, men in particular. It would get him out of the house, and give him a realistic idea of what future care for your mum might come to look like.

And colleagues are less interested than you'd think. 'Yes, living in with my mother at present, suits us both as she's starting to need a lot of help.'

Job done.

My partner's mum, on the other hand, constantly talks about death and urges her kids to have their own lives and not to worry about her because she isn't frightened, etc. It's a huge relief for him and his sisters.

I wouldn't find that a relief tbh. I would think "We know you are going to die. Everyone is going to die. Obviously we have our own lives, like everyone else. Why do you feel you need to give permission for that? It's great that you aren't frightened...so why are you going on about it? Why are you constantly talking about death? That is not normal."