Why is it always the same type of child picked for everything?

[Alittlebitofchaos]

My dd is starting secondary next year. She has been mentioning of late it's always the same kids picked for speaking, debating, acting rolls etc, head girl etc..
She is bright, friendly & always puts herself forward but it's always the chosen few who get selected.
Firstly why do this happen? Secondly how can I help her to develop skills that will help her shine in secondary?
Also if you have one of the lucky kids who is always picked, what extracurriculars /special attributes have they?

The kid always chosen is chosen because they make the school look good and the school can rely on then to perform. I suspect one that child has been identified it's very difficult to get the school to look elsewhere.

DD got so fed up of volunteering for things, and never getting picked while others got picked multiple times, that she just stopped bothering. She doesn't think she's good enough.

Shes looking forward to Secondary school as she knows the departments are completely separate there (her sister has told her she will get lots of chances there)

I don't think it's something you can fake or acquire through effort. But I do know what you mean.

I think the best way forward is not to see this type of person as being the 'best' sort of person to be but to concentrate on your own good qualities and be the best version of yourself. Western society tends to put certain personality types on a pedestal but you don't need to buy into it!

I was often chosen for roles in senior school and am now a corporate high flier.

I was never ever picked for anything at school, and looking back it bothered me far more than it should have. I'm now a "corporate high-flier" lol so it goes to show it doesn't matter in the slightest!

My ds1 is one of those children. He has Aspergers syndrome so struggles with socialising. He is nearly 18 and has a best friend now and a couple of other friends but for a long time his best friend was his brother and he would talk more to the teachers than his peers. He volunteers for everything because he likes his socialising to be more focused and teacher led rather than just hanging around.

Same in my children's primary too. Although it doesn't bother us as they are generally shy and would hate to be selected for things like that.

I was never picked for anything at school despite being a confident speaker & having lots of talent. Eg I was one of the only people in my year who could sing to tune yet wasn’t picked for the choir because they didn’t want too many Indians. Lol they picked white kids who couldn’t sing and had to mime!

It didn’t harm me. Quite the opposite. I’ve become quite wolfish about getting what what I want. I’m also a highflyer.

But do I want my son to suffer the same? Hell no. I’m that pushy parent who makes him memorise his lines at plays, takes the arts seriously, I work on his confidence by listening to him (and allowing him to argue with me in a safe way). So they can rely on him which gives him more opportunities.

I suspect one that child has been identified it's very difficult to get the school to look elsewhere.

I think this is it - once they know a few faces who will reliably get the job done, they don't take a chance on anyone else. I think it is a shame because it allows the lurkers (which in terms of public speaking includes my son) to lurk in their comfort zone, and prevents other children who are keen and very able from showing what they can do. And then being repeatedly chosen builds more confidence in the favoured ones, and being repeatedly not chosen undermines the invisible ones.

Are you active in the school at all? I know in our school it does seem like the same few kids are at everything, but it’s usually the same ones who’s parents are at everything too, helping out. I don’t think it’s about favouritism but reliability, they know if they select that child for an after school netball tournament for example those parents will make it, the good kids with flakey parents are less reliable? Just an idea/observation?

This happened when I was in primary, I realised now the parents of those kids were VERY friendly with the head teacher and other staff members and were involved in the school in general, they were always volunteering to help with events.

It's a shame and a weakness in schools

Ideally for anything - speaking or sports or music there should be opportunities for all children to have a role albeit the bigger roles / A team going to the stronger children

But that probably requires more funding - it takes more time and effort to run 5 sports teams or music groups or have scores with lines at all levels or have a bigger debating competition or larger school play cast , and in many cases schools are too big to make this easy

It isn't that in my son's school TBF - the children they pick on repeat are genuinely very competent and have been rock solid since reception.

It's generally because they are reliable, can speak confidently, have a family member (parent or grandparent) who is willing to do the rehearsing or prep needed, have a track record of doing it well before, need very little nudging and extra help to perform that role, generally very well behaved and responsible.

In terms of lead roles in plays, unfortunately due to the cut in support staffing roles and pressure on teachers there is not the time to rehearse and prepare for a play like there was 10 years ago. You can't take the gamble on "enthusiastic but never really had a speaking part Jane or John" like you could before because there isn't a T.A to take them out 15 mins here and there and prep and rehearse them for their parts for a few weeks like there used to be. I know the year 6's used to start rehearsing after SATS week for the end of year play in July, one of the TAs would take them off in small groups just to rehearse their parts. Then it would be the part before and the part after and then build into scenes before and after. Then there would be 2 weeks of hall time where it was done as a whole group. Still individual parts were rehearsed and tweaked right up to the day. There was scenery to paint and build, lighting, songs. Now support staff are cut to the bone, you have to pick the child whose parents you know will do the rehearsing at home and the child who acting comes naturally to, who naturally has a loud, clear voice and confident to speak their lines and the only way you know that is by past performance. It's such a shame.

Personally I found that any parent who was involved with the school PTA, helping with reading etc were the ones who's children got picked for everything at primary my dds school. It was the same every year.
Secondary school is totally different, I have found it's a lot fairer and usually goes on merit etc. I hope secondary school goes better for you DD.

Also, if your school is lucky enough to have a parent helper, PTA member or Governor willing to come and and support rehearsals because there are no longer support staff available to do so. You need to pick the children who you know will behave impeccably, listen and not strop if corrected by a volunteer.

I was going to say this. I used to get picked for main character roles and awkward things like singing roles in plays. I would never have put myself forward for those and wished I didn't have to do them, but think the teacher thought I needed to be more confident or whatever. I was a terrible actor!

Edit: Think I misunderstood the post I'm replying to... But my post still stands!

I would concentrate on your child achieving the best they can and not comparing her to what others are doing. You will make her feel that unless she does this, that or the other then she has failed. This sounds more about you than her.

sorry I skimmed this thread a bit for time.
But this happened at primary and secondary. At secondary, often because there just weren't enough places on these events.
Eg. Only one football team. So they picked kids who already played for teams outside of school. The others didn't get a look in. Only one play a year. so too many kids chasing too few parts.
The most confident children, who'd made a mark with the teachers, always got picked. Sometimes, this was easy because elder siblings had done the same and created expectations.

From personal experience, clubs outside of school made all the difference.

They'll get a part at a decent drama club or music club and way more chances to try out. The club will rotate people anyway and its a great confidence builder. The kids who are there want to be there.
Same with sports clubs. They may have several teams with varied skill levels, so they will get a chance to participate and learn.
These clubs have awards days and they try to include everyone. That probably won't happen at school because there are just too many of them and they don't have the time or the budget.

The other good thing is that they will have an interest outside of school, friends also out of school, and that will take some of the emphasis off feeling stuck in a school rut and really increase their confidence. Many of these clubs are at the weekend, so it also keeps them busy and active and less bored.

I have 1 of each. 1 who is always picked for everything and 1 who wishes she was.

I don’t know what the answer is to be honest. And it does cause friction in this house.

They both did a lot of acting outside school from a very young age so both are confident public speakers so it can’t be that. They are both very bright, confident, excellent school attendance.

I think it’s possibly more to do with natural charm. My one who is picked for every opportunity to represent the school is extremely affable. Gets on with everyone, is older than his years. In fact it bothers him that he is always picked as it can get tiresome.

it is always the same children, lazy teachers not wanting to put other children forward, overconfident older (within the cohort) children that make the school look good but are not the ones you want to be friends with.... children at my daughters school were groomed into head girl/boy roles by teachers they became favourites of - its not fair and it never will be. (cynical but imo true)

I think with school plays, even at primary, teachers are under pressure to put on good productions, so choose kids they can guarantee will deliver. So the loud, confident ones get chosen all the time - they are a safe bet.
Theres also some politics - the kids whose parents are socially important often get leading roles in school plays, or the kid whose mum is a costume designer and therefore useful to the school.

It's very unfair though - the kids who would benefit most are the ones who've really made an effort to put themselves out there and who aren't naturally full of confidence.
Schools make me feel sad tbh. I'm really glad my last child is getting to the tail end of their school career - too much is a popularity contest, even amongst the teachers who, as grown arse adults, really should know better!

Kids whose parents are on the PTA, or kids whose parents are teachers at the school. That's how it works at our school. If you work full time and don't have any free time to dedicate to volunteering at the school, forget about your kid getting picked for anything..

I had one who was always picked, one who had average opportunities and one who was rarely picked. They are all intelligent and polite and achieved well. However, the one who was always picked is physically very attractive, which i have no doubt helped as they were often pushed front and centre as the 'face of...' but also very popular. I put this down to an inate knack of reading people, and basically delivering what's required, adapting communication styles as necessary. This makes them well liked by many people, which increases self confidence in a virtuous circle. I think successful people often have this ability.

Yes, I agree with the innate knack of reading people and situations point and adapting accordingly. Things rings true for my ‘picked for everything’ child vs my one who isn’t.

I've experienced this from both sides. My eldest DD was quiet and although she liked acting, always seemed to get passed over for the speaking roles in school plays and assemblies. The louder, confident kids always got chosen while she had background roles.

My other 2 DCs were a bit more successful with this type of thing. DS was usually chosen for the lead parts in plays and my younger DD was a prefect and often spoke in assemblies/plays etc.

I think teachers are often pressed for time and choose the kids they know won't get stage fright and can speak clearly and confidently. The ability to learn lines comes into it too and I think that's why my DS was often chosen, because he has a good memory and can speak loudly. Even so, when he started secondary, other children would get chosen over him because there was a bigger pool of kids so it didn't last forever.

It isn't always a good thing because DD2 in particular often worried behind closed doors about the public speaking aspect and fretting she would forget things and look silly.

If I were you, I'd tell your DD that just because she isn't chosen, it doesn't mean she isn't talented or capable. Encourage her to practise her speaking skills with you or in front of a mirror, maybe join a debate or drama club in secondary school to build confidence, stay positive and maybe ask for feedback after auditions from the school staff. She's putting herself out there so that's the main thing.