Friend subtly undermining me - how to deal?

[Nailedit1111]

NC for this one, as I suspect said friend might be on MN too. But I've been here since Mexican house thief, neighbour patio window-gate, etc.

This is my issue.

Big friendship group, lots of families. One particular friend likes to take charge when we have group outings. Definite bossy Queen Bee vibes. I let her crack on because once she's decided things should be done a certain way there's little point arguing.

When we first met years ago I had MH issues around anxiety and was a people pleaser, much to my detriment. I admit I used to fawn/pander to her, desperate for her approval. Now, older, wiser, mentally more stable and less fucks given, I don't.

What I've noticed, however – and is the point of my post – is that she LOVES to undermine me in company. She makes subtle digs to imply that I'm a mess or a bit thick and makes jokes at my expense. Worse still, she says stuff about my DH as though she knows him better than me. For instance, if I say 'we're planning to go to xx on holiday', she'll pipe up, 'Oh, but Mr NailedIt isn't into that kind of thing'. She also tries to rope him into the jokes.

It's really bloody annoying! The group is meeting in July and this time I want her to stop trying to big herself up at my expense. Not going is not an option – I love the meet ups and our DC would be devastated to miss out. I've also talked to my DH and while he said in the moment he hadn't noticed what she was doing, with hindsight he can see what I mean. He's going to shut her down in future, but how can I deal with it? I don't think she's a malicious person and I do like her a lot – I think her behaviour is her down to her own insecurities and also because previously I had been an easy target. But I'm tired of being a punchline and need strategies to deal with it.

Thanks!

She is malicious and she doesn’t like you
A pp nailed it. Nothing you do or say will stop her malice toward you.

That is not what punching down means 😂If you are happy with being bullied and having someone imply you are disgusting that is your choice, but it is not "punching down" to stop her. She probably does this to more than just you, I would see it as a civic duty to shut her up.

I meant PP encouraging me to punch down at her, which I'm not going to do because I'm not a bully either.

Start embarrassing her right back. These types can dish it out and not take it. She will stop but not until you put her in her place

@Nailedit1111 the way to stop this it to react aggressively when she does it. When she says something annoying click your fingers in her face and go ‘Oi! Fuck off mate!’

she will not do it again.

yes I have done this. Yes I do have friends, but yes, none of them are rude to me

If she asked about your hand washing I would ask about hers, sorry did I see you touch your nose before handling that salad?

Breaking crockery, haven't broken a thing since 1990! How about you?

Both with a laugh obviously!

You need to stop this, now. So the next time she makes some shitty comment about you dropping plates etc, I’d go with a very straightforward hard and loud “do you mean to be such a bitch?” If she replies with you need to take a joke etc, tell her if she carries on, the jokes will be at her expense and with her very obvious insecurities, she won’t find them funny. She won’t know what to say because she’ll be gobsmacked that you “answered back”. Smile sweetly and say “let’s leave it there shall we”
When she’s commenting on your holidays, small smile and “ oh dear, someone sounds jealous”. Hit back at her every single time. Do not let one single slight pass.
This woman is NOT your friend. Nor is she a nice person. She is trampling your boundaries and involving your dh in it too. Be very, very wary.

I think it really depends on what sort of person you are; personally, at the first insult, I’d take a look at my watch and say something like ‘you’re slow off the mark tonight, Maureen, you usually make your first dig at me within ten minutes of us getting together.’

Actually, she sounds actively unpleasant (the hand washing dig alone is inexcusable imo) so in reality, I’d probably position myself well away from her.

I really love that first response!

Stoop to her level?

Punching down is going after someone that is at a disadvantage to you in some way. She’s actually punching down at you because she knows you are more passive than she is and less likely to snap back at her.

OK so I am nearly 2 decades on from the tiny-baby/we're all in this together days, and I had a similar friend who used to like to make jokes at my expense. It's not my humour at all (plus, I grew up with it, which is hard). And I did what you're saying, I focused on the fact that she was fun and really nice at times, which she was.

We're just Facebook friends now, as she lives abroad, but I have to tell you that she irritates the fuck out of me every time she posts her smug gob on there. And all of it harks back to those days with small kids, her laughing at my baby to cover up her insecurities about her own (she was obsessed with him being quiet and small, while mine was really smiley and...larger? It sounds so mad now, they were both normal babies). Laughing at me for random things but being super understanding about how hard it is to have little kids. It's like, now we don't spend any time together, I can step back and say, christ why did I waste my time on this arsehole?

What I mean is, you might just save yourself a lot of subpar memories if you don't engage with her so much. Don't take part in the conversations she's part of, when you get together with friends. Etc. Obviously you're not going to cut her out because it's a big friendship group, but don't feel too bad if you manage to do something where she's not included. I do think she sounds like she enjoys putting you down a little, and that sort of stuff is nasty, regardless of how 'nice' she is at other times. Nobody needs it!

Sorry, just to continue where I left off 😁I remember at the time having a conversation with her about 'nice': she always had the viewpoint that people can be arseholes but also very 'nice', whereas I said I think the word is massively overused and actually, it's not niceness that counts, but integrity, empathy etc. not taking the piss out of your friends for example

Why did I not heed my own advice! I really do regret it.

It's not your responsibility to give a witty withering comebacks. You shouldn't have to go on holiday geared up for war - you are supposed to be enjoying yourself and relaxing.

Just keep it simple when she says the mean things. "That's not a nice thing to say". "You've said a few unkind things on this trip". "I don't find that funny, it's an unkind thing to say". "Its not nice when you make everyone laugh at me, it feels like im being picked on". "You're making it sound like you know him better than I do. It feels like a dig". "Do you think we could get through this trip without you insulting me?" Even if your voice breaks or you sound upset or you temporarily poop the party.

I would so do the whole telling them comments were intolerable. I’m sorry, OP, she doesn’t like you and is being a proper bitch.

Please don’t let this lie, call her out on it and ask her why she’s making such frequent nasty comments. Straight back at her with ‘What the fuck, love, is your problem with me?’ And when she blusters and tries to deflect, you go ‘No, last week you said this, this and this, today, you’re saying this and that. You don’t know my DH if you think that and you seem to really fucking hate me. What exactly is the issue? Stop using me as the butt of your inane jokes.’ (Language adjusted based on audience, obviously) Stop letting her do this to you.

Every time she says something remotely nasty say “ouch" and let that hang there. That will draw everyone's attention (including hers) to the fact she is making repeated jabs at you, and you are doing nothing to deserve it or to retaliate.

Because we don't see each other that often I'm not sure she's realised how much stronger I am and so she's still treating me like before.

Well either she is treating you like she did before and you're noticing it because you are a different person now, or she senses you are stronger and she's doing it on purpose to put you back in your place.

Either way, I don't think she is a nice person at all. You say you like her a lot, but to be honest, I am struggling to understand why.

I used to be friends with someone like her (and for a long time I didn't realise), and looking back I don't know why I tolerated it for so long.

I would have to message her about that toilet comment. That's absolutely unforgivable and should be called out.

As far as her comments about your husband are concerned I would just say quite loudly I don't know why you always seem to think you know my husband better than I do.

She's doing it because she thinks it makes her look

funny / clever / witty / better / more important

If you're not wanting to talk to her one to one, calmly and directly, about what she's doing (which would be the best thing to do, because without an audience she's left exposed) then you just have to get into the habit of saying something - anything - which spoils her moment right there and then.

Anything you feel comfortable saying which pushes the attention back to her in a negative way is what you need to do and she'll no longer get the buzz out of it.

I'm not going to give examples because you're better off coming up with your own - they'll slip out easier on the spur of the moment that way. Ask DH to help think of some.
Good luck

One I have used is ‘what do you hope to achieve from that comment’

Glassy calm goes a long way. I find refusing to laugh or smile - which is harder than it sounds for us people-pleasing women- and staring coolly back conveys a lot. You don't need to glare, just make it clear you are not amused or impressed. A few of those moments usually do the trick.

I would message her before the next meet up and say “hi Sheila, Its been noticed that you make comments to and about me and DH that aren’t nice. I’d appreciate it if you don’t do it again. Thanks.”
rinse and repeat when she tries to defend herself.
She will ask who’s noticed and you can say I won’t mention any names here. This will have the bonus of her thinking other people will have commented on it. And I guarantee people laughing at the hand washing comment will have second hand embarrassment for her. I would think what a twat!

I think you need to toughen up a bit more.

Next time she tried to put you down say something like: 'What's your problem with me, please explain?'. She will probably say: 'only joking'. You reply with confidence and a wink - ''well, and piss poor/crap sense of humour'.

Laugh - laughing always floors bullies.

Can you find an ally to stick up for you? Maybe your husband if you don't feel safe to confide in someone else. Much easier if someone else says "oh just leave NailedIt1111 alone, what's she ever done to you"

If you like her and don't think she's malicious, would it not be better to be direct and have a quiet word with her? (Even by private message not necessarily face to face)

"I don't mean to make things awkward, but earlier when you said X, I didn't find it funny. You make a lot of little jokes at my expense, I don't like it. Please could you tone it down"

If she really has just developed a bad thoughtless habit then she ought to be mortified and you won't hear another peep from her and you can just move on. The awkwardness will settle, hopefully, but anything has to be preferable to the current situation.

Obviously if she doesn't heed your warning you can then escalate / reiterate in increasingly firm terms and involve others as needed

Thankfully I've matured but used to be someone who pushed humour too far and hurt people's feelings. I did it because I was desperate to make people laugh so they would like me and I struggled a bit with social boundaries. I can recall a time somebody pulled me aside and actually said, you're trying to be funny but you're being offensive and making me uncomfortable. It was absolutely mortifying but honestly they did me a massive favour. (I apologised of course!)

I have been in this sort of situation a couple of times and I found that actually losing my temper just a little bit sorted the entire thing. As long as you regain your equilibrium quickly and move everyone along and away from the awkwardness asap, there is nothing wrong with saying firmly but with a smile “ look, Maureen, I am getting more than a little fed-up with being the butt of your jokes and little comments ok?”