Friend subtly undermining me - how to deal?

[Nailedit1111]

NC for this one, as I suspect said friend might be on MN too. But I've been here since Mexican house thief, neighbour patio window-gate, etc.

This is my issue.

Big friendship group, lots of families. One particular friend likes to take charge when we have group outings. Definite bossy Queen Bee vibes. I let her crack on because once she's decided things should be done a certain way there's little point arguing.

When we first met years ago I had MH issues around anxiety and was a people pleaser, much to my detriment. I admit I used to fawn/pander to her, desperate for her approval. Now, older, wiser, mentally more stable and less fucks given, I don't.

What I've noticed, however – and is the point of my post – is that she LOVES to undermine me in company. She makes subtle digs to imply that I'm a mess or a bit thick and makes jokes at my expense. Worse still, she says stuff about my DH as though she knows him better than me. For instance, if I say 'we're planning to go to xx on holiday', she'll pipe up, 'Oh, but Mr NailedIt isn't into that kind of thing'. She also tries to rope him into the jokes.

It's really bloody annoying! The group is meeting in July and this time I want her to stop trying to big herself up at my expense. Not going is not an option – I love the meet ups and our DC would be devastated to miss out. I've also talked to my DH and while he said in the moment he hadn't noticed what she was doing, with hindsight he can see what I mean. He's going to shut her down in future, but how can I deal with it? I don't think she's a malicious person and I do like her a lot – I think her behaviour is her down to her own insecurities and also because previously I had been an easy target. But I'm tired of being a punchline and need strategies to deal with it.

Thanks!

“What a weird comment”

”No idea why anyone would say that”

”I see you’re still in your mean girl era, Maureen” Eye roll and half laugh.

”Blimey Maureen are you ok?”

Or tens Seconds of silence and then change subject/walk off. Don’t tidy away her malice.

I have no idea how to reset an old friendship with a new more reciprocal dynamic. I used to be a desperate people pleaser too but now that I don't fawn, acquiesce, oblige, capitulate, it's been difficult to reset these friendships on a different level. One friendship I would like to save, she's not publicly undermining me but she feels sorry for me (ie gets to be superior in the friendship) she is a good person though. It tricky, you change, you firm up your sense of yourself, so old friends don't feel the same comfortable feelings (of superiority) that they used to feel around you. It was unconscious. But being around you used to make them feel good/superior and now it doesnt.

My sister is like this - constant put downs that are laughed off as me not having a sense of humour and/or being too sensitive.

She will regularly say that DH doesn’t like X or X wouldn’t be his cup of tea. It really doesn’t have anything to do with her thinking she knows DH better than I do, it’s simply her way of putting HIM down as well, it’s her way of saying DH is boring/dull.

The suggestions above about how to laugh it off eg saying ‘you silly goose’ wouldn’t work because she’d quickly kick back by repeating it or saying ‘oh someone is extra sensitive today’.
It really is a reflection of how she views herself as superior to both DH and me and she seems to build herself up knocking us down.

I think you have to see it for what it is OP. The woman isn’t your friend. She doesn’t like you. When I was younger, I tried asking my sister why she was saying things like that to me and she replied ‘I don’t like you if you were not my sister you would never be someone I’d choose to spend time with’. I never forgot that. I know sibling relationships are complicated and difficult but this woman isn’t your friend. Be direct with her and forget about trying to keep the dynamics of the group. Every time she says something mean to you, ask her loudly and clearly if saying it has made her feel better about herself. Every single time. And never ever confide in her. It will always be used against you.

Tell her to fuck off

Can you say that again? I'm think I misheard as I'm sure you're that unkind.

DH? Crikey, sounds like you don't know him at all.

Washed my hands? Are you feeling okay, that's an extremely bizarre comment to make. Can I get you some water?

Not that unkind

Yes the shine a light on it strategy.

I've been pushed around in the past so when I started most recent job, I tried this strategy. I had one bossy boots treating me like her lackey, so I asked "I feel like you've appointed me your assistant, is that your intention?"

Obviously they are cornered when you're brave enough to be this direct. So chances are high they say "oh no no gosh no not at all!"

at that point you give them the benefit of the doubt and say "so glad!" Big smile.

That alerts them to what they hadn't realised, you can stand in your own corner.

The simple....why are you being a bitch?
....Or stop being a bitch.....Or you're mixing me up with yourself.
Would be my reply if the children weren't nearby.
I have no time for nastiness and call it out.

If you don't want to give up the group....say this on repeat whenever she says anything?
I work in a women dominant profession and dealt with a lot of these....projecting their own securities on other people I don't use the word bitch at work,,.,but I have to call it out

Look at her in a puzzled way and say, "what a strange thing to say to me. (Pause for a second then take a breath and carry on with) Anyway..." Then change the subject by saying literally anything.
Nice weather, garden is looking good, anyone got plans for next week etc
What you say doesn't matter, only that you do a really obvious topic change and look at her as though you are utterly baffled by her.

She sounds like an amateur tbh. Far too obvious in her behaviour.

Piece of piss to deal with her.

She sounds like a bitch! Does nobody else say anything or react?

She sounds awful and not like a friend!

Your husband is in on it now, so when she says something, look at your husband and both roll your eyes and smirk at each other and look away. Don’t say anything, just make out it’s your own little in joke. Don’t engage with her, she’ll soon get annoyed if she feels like she’s on the outside/being taken the piss out of for once.

This person is not a friend. I wouldn’t waste any more time on her.

I don't think any of these are useful.

It's much better - though initially hard - to call the behaviour out directly, and force the friend to respond.

This is bullying.

I don't really do pass-agg, I'd be more direct. To the plate comment I would ask her directly 'When did you ever see me drop a plate?' If she can't give an actual example she'll look stupid and everyone else will realise (if they didn't already) that she is just being mean to you.

To the toilet one I'd go with 'Are you timing how long everyone is in the toilet? How weird. Or is it only me that you're checking up on? Which frankly is even weirder'. That focuses back on her behaviour rather than yours.

The comment about the loo is fucking awful - I would snap at her for that "Are you suggesting I have shit on my hands? Why do you do this, just leave me alone and find someone else to pick on" then walk out. She'll fucking well stop it then. I would not have that at all.

I’m assuming she does this in front of kids etc so a simple “why don’t you just fuck off Maureen?” wouldn’t be appropriate.

Could you do a “ooh watch out, everyone, Maureen’s been on the gin again” or something?

Yep agree your examples are awful.

First reaction to what she said

For the plates, I’d given her a hard stare and said ‘I don’t think so.’ And then grabbed the plates myself.
For the loo, again hard stare mixed and I’d told her ‘you are monitoring how long I spend in the loo?!?’ With an incredulous tone

Youre still a people pleaser @Nailedit1111. You’re still uncomfortable ‘making a scene’ when the responsibility of any issue/scene is really down to the friend/QueenBee.
I get that it’s very easy to come up with answers when you’re not in the thick of it. But practice your ‘Pardon?!?’. It’s a good answer to most batshit comments. Including hers.

She's a malicious bully. I'd tear her a new one

I quite like the phrase "did you mean to say that outloud?"

You're reaching with your character assessment of me! The examples I gave were back when I was a people pleaser. The fact that I won't put up with it now and have sought advice on how to respond means I AM taking responsibility.

This thread has given me plenty of food for thought, especially about whether her behaviour is knowingly malicious. Have talked to DH and he is also going to be more aware.

Going to leave it here now though because some of the comments – 'tear her a new one' – leave a really bad taste. So much punching down – it would make me as bad as her if I followed that advice! Thanks to everyone who made helpful suggestions, I appreciate it.

She sounds horrible, to be honest. I'd call her on it every single time.

'What an unpleasant thing to say to someone!'

'What a rude comment'

'Why would you come out with something that spiteful?'

Make it clear you won't tolerate it and will pull her up every single time by pointing out to others that she is being bitchy.

This.
It's so so so hard to do but I did it once to someone who was being such a dick. It worked perfectly. He went away with his tail between his legs and never bothered me or my DH again.

Don't try to come up with something clever, or witty, or shut her up, you'll just trip yourself up, end up looking petty and let her know that she's got you on the hook.

Something like, oh you are funny Maureen, Bob how did you get on with that inflatable canoe shopping, tell me all about it. Cut her off and move on immediately.

Or now that your DH is in on it, you can just ignore her and leave her shitty comments hanging in the air while you raise your eyebrows and smile at DH.

She is not your friend in any sense of the word, afford her the appropriate energy.

I'd get your DH to contradict her himself. That should shut her down directly and cut out the middle man (you).