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Original poster

Do you think Michael Jackson was guilty?

702 replies

InnocentOrGuilty · 12/05/2024 09:48

Of the sexual abuse of boys.
I'm interested in a poll.
G = you think he was definitely guilty
I = you think he was innocent
(Stemming from a debate with DH last night!)

OP posts:
Thread gallery
21
Workawayxx · 12/05/2024 21:18

Guilty. This is what child abusers do, they create a very “safe” persona so they can carry out their abuse. The lonely friendly uncle, the decent married man etc etc. I’m not saying we should suspect any man who is like this that but we shouldn’t allow anyone outside of parents excess unsupervised access to children.

Mirabai · 12/05/2024 21:19

cultjarteriaky · 12/05/2024 21:14

1- a laughing emoji on this topic is very distasteful

2- no sexual images of little boys were found

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Nude and semi nude images of young boys were found. A selection:

"Boys Will Be Boys," containing photographs of boys under the age of 14; full frontal nudity. The book is personally inscribed by Michael Jackson.

"In Search of Young Beauty," containing photographs of children, both boys and girls, some nude.

"The Boy, A Photographic Essay"; containing black-and-white photos of boys, some nude.

Mirabai · 12/05/2024 21:20

cultjarteriaky · 12/05/2024 21:16

Ah low blow - expected.

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??

YaMuvva · 12/05/2024 21:20

Trulyme · 12/05/2024 19:08

You are right!

They are sneaky and clever and you do often hear how lonely and trustworthy they were.

Great point!

But if you thought your child had been abused would you be happy with a payout instead of a prison sentence?
That’s another thing I don’t understand.

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I 200% understand why people would and I’ll tell you why

The 2 boys who accused Jackson of molestation and sexual abuse received thousands of death threats, as did their families. If in the (statistically unlikely) event that your abuser is convicted and jailed, this isn’t always a feeling of power or exoneration . In fact it can be even more troubling for victims as they don’t get the closure they expected. Justice isn’t always what it’s cracked up to be. Not to mention that the defence team can be as nasty as they like to a child on the stand, and they will, and there’s a lot more leeway in what they can say to victims than in the U.K.
Couple that with your child being public enemy number 1 - I’d totally understand someone thinking “We could press on with the trial, but even if he was convicted he’d come out of jail, be adored by the world and meanwhile my child would still be in deep pain having to watch his convoyed abuser be hero worshipped. Or I could take this windfall and build us a better life, get some anonymity and try and heal somewhere where no one knows us”.

The Chandler’s used their settlement to start a new life and it’s clearly worked because Jordy is uncontactable

Gavin’s parents pressed ahead with a trial and look what happened - Gavin, who nearly died of cancer, is still harrassed by superfans to this day

YaMuvva · 12/05/2024 21:25

pocketheart · 12/05/2024 19:42

Jarvis Cocker invading his sickening display on the brits was genius at the time but watching it back now 😳
He was literally flaunting his repulsive behaviour in our faces - thank god Jarvis was brave enough to try and disrupt it.

Oh I loved that moment!! I REALLY fancied Jarvis Cocker as a teen and even more so after that.

Namechange4765 · 12/05/2024 21:30

Absolutely 100% guilty.

For anyone in any doubt, please watch Leaving Neverland. And/or take a look at the Reddit sub of the same name.

I follow Wade Robson and James Safechuck on social media and you can clearly see the long-lasting effects of their trauma. They're both involved in men's sexual abuse organisations and host a trauma podcast, focusing on sexual abuse.

For anyone saying that they're lying, that's one hell of a charade they're keeping up!

I can't listen to any of his music now and I can't believe most of the media are turning a blind eye. The fact that there's a biopic coming out next year is insane.

PassingStranger · 12/05/2024 21:38

Nothing would surprise me.
What about the time he dangled the child over the balcony.

toepick · 12/05/2024 21:41

Guilty

And I loved him as a kid

Paedos should be chemically castrated. I have no mercy or sympathy for someone who would do that to a child and I don't give a fuck if it's because you were abused.

I won't listen to his music now

It's clear, like saville, he cultivated this eccentric image to cover his manipulative, sociopathic behaviour. I bet the mask slipped and he did sound and behave very differently behind closed doors.

Looking back the adoration and fans passing out with excitement at his concerts etc seems weird now. I'm not sure we get that same level of fandom anymore. Probably because SM detracts from the enigma one can cultivate.

He was a cunt and I'm glad he's dead

Lifesabeachbaby · 12/05/2024 21:41

His kids by donor seem to have adored him . I do wonder what they saw/knew though.

toepick · 12/05/2024 21:46

People love and adore their abusers

It's a trauma response

YaMuvva · 12/05/2024 21:52

StandingMyGround888 · 12/05/2024 19:56

Innocent.

Can I ask you - if it was Barry down the road who worked in Asda (but was REALLY GOOD at his job) who befriended pretty little boys in the local area, had them dress in Asda uniforms, sleep over in his bedroom, had a playground in his back garden, owned picture books full of young naked boys and was twice charged with child sexual abuse - would you be saying he was innocent too?

YaMuvva · 12/05/2024 21:54

StandingMyGround888 · 12/05/2024 20:12

Innocent.

It started through one person realising that they could sue. Then began the money train that everybody decided to jump on.

I believe Michael Jackson never reached psychological maturation and his looking after boys particularly white boys was to try to relive his own childhood in a new way. I believe he was generous and naive and it was all a psychological role play for his childhood self which he projected onto the children. He wanted to be the father he never had to his own self and did it projected through others.

I believe people around him saw his vulnerability or even themselves believed that he did it. Then they went after him.

He was cleared at trial.

The two latest accusers in the documentary have gained a lot. There was a lot to gain in accusing Michael Jackson and people went for it.

Never reached maturity yet churned out these smash hits?

Can I ask why you think he behaved so much like a pedophile if he wasn’t one?

And why 8 boys would go on record accusing him most of them getting nothing in return but hate and harrasment?

YaMuvva · 12/05/2024 21:59

NorthUtsireSouthUtsire · 12/05/2024 20:31

No I am not a Michael Jackson fan so have no skin in this game .. however I am a criminal investigator who followed the trial and evidence presented ..!just from professional interest..

I absolutely believe he was innocent.. everyone who thinks he is guilty needs to look back on his life !!he simply had NO CHILDHOOD and try to recreate it .

Criminal investigator my arse.

He did have a childhood. Or do you think he was born aged 18?

Funny now all the Jacko defenders are first time posters who came on at on ex the nonce-lover klaxon must have sounded

YaMuvva · 12/05/2024 21:59

StandingMyGround888 · 12/05/2024 20:34

He did not have child pornography, that is a lie. Read here about it: https://www.huffpost.com/entry/no-child-porn-found-at-neverland-thenor-now-the_b_577fdfbce4b0f06648f4a3f8

He did. Would you like to see the FBI files? It’s passed off as ‘art’ but it is books full on naked pictures of boys and also a naked picture of one of his accusers

Namechange4765 · 12/05/2024 22:02

Ankylo · 12/05/2024 19:25

My gut is that he was innocent.

He was certainly messed up from being abused by his father. He was 'stuck' with a child mentality. He liked children but not in a sexual way and would never hurt them.

That's just what I feel, obviously! Who really knows..

Watch Leaving Neverland... Guarantee your gut will not be saying that then.

YaMuvva · 12/05/2024 22:02

I really worry about the children of Jackson’s defenders on this thread. I really think there’s a safeguarding issue of you all because none of you can identify a very obvious pedophile. I hope your kids have someone safer in their lives to care for them. Presumably you’d let your kid sleepover? Because if he’s innocent and just recreating his childhood it wouldn’t be a problem, right?

YaMuvva · 12/05/2024 22:03

StandingMyGround888 · 12/05/2024 20:47

@Mirabai don't try to get out of it now. You said endless porn and images of young boys. If you meant adult legal heterosexual porn, which it was, why insert it into a sentence trying to make it look like you were speaking about images of child sexual abuse. Don't be disingenuous.

Yes he had heterosexual porn. What does that have to do with this? Nothing except to illustrate that his sexual interest was in grown women.

With regard to the "pictures of boys":

"Many of these books were discarded as inadmissible evidence because they were commercially available art books that anyone can purchase legally. Of the titles that were entered as admissible evidence, it was not because they were pornographic but, rather, because the prosecution felt that they might potentially bolster an argument that Jackson “could have” used the books as grooming material and in an attempt to prove some sort of predilection on Jackson’s part for males (since a few of the titles featured artsy photographs of nude males; however, these were generally titles that featured adult erotica of both sexes). The “sadomasochism” books were adult books featuring adult subjects ( Madonna’s “Sex,” for example, was a book that he was known to have shopped for in the early 1990s) and because none of these materials fit the legal definition of child pornography. This left the prosecution in the rather embarrassing situation of having to build a case on Jackson’s adult legal porn collection, which was-let’s just say-healthy, but not that unusual for a single guy. Let’s remember, these people invaded his private quarters, after all. The full list of Jackson’s adult porn that was confiscated in the Neverland raid has been widely available for many years, and consisted of over 1800 images of nude adult women. You can find the full list here. But essentially, this left the prosecution in the rather embarrassing position of trying to build a case of child molestation against a man for whom the only “evidence” they had was issues of Hustler, Playboy, Penthouse, Barely Legal, and the like ― along with, well, a lot of art books. The thing you have to keep in mind is that the prosecution never had one shred of what we might call “smoking gun” evidence ― the kind that usually leads to an easy, “case closed” conviction in cases like this. There were no explicit love letters written to any child, no photos of himself or children engaged in sexual acts, no video tapes of himself with children in lewd acts, no taped phone conversations, no online “sex chats” ― in other words, none of the things that can usually lead to an easy conviction in such cases. You have to remember that Jackson was under constant FBI surveillance for over ten years. The reports eventually concluded nothing to be found. A search of over sixteen computer hard drives seized in the 2003 raid revealed nothing except that he occasionally visited a few adult legal porn sites where he liked to log in as “Dr. Black” and “Marcel Jackson.” Juicy gossip fodder, yes. Illegal; no."

It had been insinuated he used porn to show to minors. This was a cheap tactic of the prosecution and demonstrated to be a weak argument by the fact that the magazine he supposedly used to do this was not even published at the date of the supposed offence.

Have a good read of this

https://www.digitalmusicnews.com/2016/06/21/items-discovered-police-michael-jackson/

And tell me with every other factor taken into account this man wasn’t a pedophile

Items Discovered by Police In Michael Jackson's Residence (NSFW)

The list of items discovered in Michael Jackson's Neverland Ranch by police in a 2003. The Santa Barbara Sheriff's Department is not denying their validity.

https://www.digitalmusicnews.com/2016/06/21/items-discovered-police-michael-jackson/

YaMuvva · 12/05/2024 22:04

Itsmychristmasdress · 12/05/2024 20:47

Yeah yeah, those books were "art". The lengths people go to to defend very obvious pedophiles is mind blowing.

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It’s scary and I hope they never care for children. People who think someone who is the world’s most obvious pedophile is innocent, simply because he was good at his job, is not someone who is safe to be round kids

YaMuvva · 12/05/2024 22:06

ohfook · 12/05/2024 20:51

Yes I do but I think we are very forgiving of talented men in our culture. But if I told you about my mate Jim who works in the bank, is mainly friends with thirteen year old boys and invites them to sleepovers where they sleep in his bed, nobody's going to be volunteering their kids to go to Jim's next sleepover because deep down we know it's fucked up.

I do believe though the extent to which you can separate the artist from the art is a personal choice and we all make different decisions. I used to love the lost prophets but found I could no longer listen to them once Ian Watkins actions became known. I do feel bad for the other members of the band though to have their work tainted like that. However I did continue to listen to the rumjacks even after their singer was convicted of domestic violence and the dead south after the allegations towards Danny Kenyon came to light.

I personally don’t listen to MJ songs, but I am fine with people who can separate the art from the artists. I just wish the pedophile apologists would say “Yeah he’s clearly not innocent but I’m still gonna enjoy his music” because that would be fine

YaMuvva · 12/05/2024 22:08

StandingMyGround888 · 12/05/2024 20:57

This was the age he himself became famous. I have written about this earlier in the thread that it was a psychological projection.

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OR it’s because that’s his sexual preference.
He was actually famous from much younger.

But is that you excusing child grooming? Because you can’t deny that’s EXACTLY what he did. Even if you thought there was no molestation - is it ok to groom children like that? Use them as ‘friends’ to cast them aside for the next pretty boys when they were too old for him? How can you possibly stand by that behaviour?!

YaMuvva · 12/05/2024 22:09

StandingMyGround888 · 12/05/2024 20:59

Found Not Guilty.

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It doesn’t matter, childrens services work to a very different standard And framework and children do get taken off parents who are repeatedly accused but not convicted. Which is the right thing to do seeing as conviction rates are woefully low

Also being found not guilty does not mean he was found innocent.

YaMuvva · 12/05/2024 22:10

cultjarteriaky · 12/05/2024 21:02

@Mirabai
I read on wikipedia that Jim Clemente was a SA victim as a child

Maybe he is projecting a little

Are you going to address Jackson’s pedopholic behaviour rather than deflect with ridiculous theories

YaMuvva · 12/05/2024 22:10

cultjarteriaky · 12/05/2024 21:04

Who was twice charged?

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The Queen of Sheba
who do you think

YaMuvva · 12/05/2024 22:11

Mirabai · 12/05/2024 21:10

It’s quite extraordinary that SS did not get involved affer what was found at his house. In the U.K. it would certainly have sparked an SS investigation.

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I have worked with children services department and there would at least be an emergency car care order in place. He apparently had a penchant for paying people off, or maybe social services just had stupid Jackson fans in it

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