Radical life change to leave the rat race - has anyone done this?

[Braindeer]

This is a bit long…sorry in advance. Also I am aware I am extremely fortunate so please don’t read on if first world problems are triggering for you.

I work full time in the city in London - long hours, high pay. I’m the main breadwinner - DH works in charity sector so much lower pay (a fraction of mine). Kids are preschool and year 1 and I’m pregnant with DC3. We live in a not especially nice quite small and narrow terrace in zone 3 and have about 50% equity (c.£500k). I have a very good pension pot but we don’t have much savings relative to earnings (about 6 months’ expenses).

At the moment I feel like I’m sacrificing a lot and it’s not paying off - the money I earn sounds like insane riches but in London it doesn’t go far at all (eg can’t afford to extend the kitchen, couldn’t afford private school for 2 kids never mind 3).

I’ve been fantasising about selling up and moving to a cheaper part of the country, buying a cheaper house outright and moving to a much lower paid part time job so I can spend more time with the kids.

But I also recognise that I’m very much a classic “Type A” personality and wonder if this would be a terrible mistake…once we make the move we could never go back.

Has anyone done anything like this? Is this madness? I obviously wouldn’t contemplate it until after dc3 is here.

I’d start the process of trying to identify exactly what it is that is making you unhappy and what it is that brings you pleasure/motivates you. Also as others say I’d try and think about this both in terms of with very young kids ( which is the really hard bit physically/time wise) and in the longer term. Plus what you want for your kids etc.

It sounds like you are a bit overwhelmed which is possibly leading to ‘I just need to escape’ thinking! Which is completely understandable. Before dismissing it though I would look to see if there are other career options that would work for you in London - just so you have thought everything through.

I am a single parent in London so I totally understand that feeling of even though I work hard I just have no money. However for me when I really thought about what matters to me, London with all its culture and my job and friends does just about edge it! Despite what I often think I am someone who is happier when working with a certain amount of pressure ( I was lucky enough to try a secondment to something lower pressure and it just didn’t work for me). But that’s me! One thing I would say is don’t feel guilty if work does matter to you - it’s really important to try and be honest with yourself.

I have friends who have left London for similar reasons. Some are now so happy, others deeply regret it - it really does depend on what ends up mattering to you. Quite a few have moved to Leeds as solicitors as I’m sure you are aware that’s pretty much the next significant hub ( other than Bristol) but it isn’t that cheap anymore either.

The simplest solution surely is to move a bit further out of London, outside the M25 but on a good trainline. There are downsides but the quieter, greener surroundings more than compensate.

I would think very, very carefully before throwing in your legal career. I am a bystander in this world myself and think that people who are inside it don’t quite get just how low salaries can be for ‘ordinary’ jobs (yes, even graduate, management level jobs requiring years of experience and bearing a lot of responsibility). Lawyers, all told, are generally treated pretty well as employees (perks, benefits etc) because there’s a lot more money swimming around. It’s pretty depressing to work hard all year then have no Christmas do, or be told that you have to pay for your own tea and coffee, or have to work in a freezing office because the building is on its last legs, or not be allowed the technology that you need to do your job effectively - all of which have occurred in my working life!

Salaries are pretty stagnant and the introduction of wfh has really increased the geographical competition for roles. Add in ageism and it gets quite tricky. I have been job hunting for a year and am currently applying for jobs paying less than I was working for a decade ago, for an equivalent level of responsibility. To put this into context, I have a relevant masters degree and twenty+ years of experience. I’m giving it more time to find a role but not sure what the solution is really.

If you did go for a full change I would suggest something like buying a residential property with commercial potential eg. a house with outbuildings that could become holiday lets or a wedding venue.

But the thing that you’re not factoring into your plans is the curve ball.

Illness
SEND
Divorce

At those moments money really, really helps.

Plus having three children. Ultimately, anything you have will now need to be diced three ways…

Thank you @Chitterchatterchoo i think you could be right with the “I need to escape” thinking. Maybe it is just temporary panic. And yes - somewhere up north like Leeds or Manchester is probably where we might start - though appreciate it’s not actually much cheaper so might not be worth it. DH’s family are there though, which would be great.

@BadSkiingMum you make a lot of very good points re pay and conditions and I know I’m very lucky and taking so much for granted here. I don’t think moving out of London and commuting in would solve any problems though unless I also changed jobs, (which I guess I could do if property was a lot cheaper), because I’m expected to be in the office 3 days so a longer commute would just take away more of my free time.

It’s tricky to find a balance. When I started this thread I felt like just chucking in the towel completely but perhaps I need to try a lot harder to explore middle ground options.

As a single parent with no family (live overseas) I can tell you that the time where you feel you want to step back from your career is just another season in life, mine is now 11 and I'm just starting to refocus on my career and take steps to move up and increase my earnings, they need less of us in some ways at this point.

I was lucky enough to have a long (2.5yr) maternity leave ( though driven by husband not wanting me to return to work) at this point, things are changing, my son whom I want to be learning independence is travelling to school and back alone, has keys to let himself in if I'm in the office, I understand where you are now, but keep in mind that this may just be a temporary period, so I would keep my options open for the future of your career,

Do you love your work?

Can you consider it a 5-10 year stage with a view to something changing again down the line.

I guess what I'm saying is talk to your husband about the change not being forever, London may be an amazing place for kids to live when they reach high school.

But how long is your commute now? Pick the right line and you can be home in 45 minutes to 1 hour. Some are very fast indeed.

I wouldn't think twice about leaving London and having £500k to buy somewhere outright
MN is a bit odd sometimes and some people believe that anywhere outside of London is some barren wasteland where we're all on minimum wage and have no prospects. I know of two Solicitors, one is Partner the other isn't. Both work nowhere near London, have lovely houses and good work life balance. The one who is Partner does come under pressure at times but also they both work majority of the time from home.
Both well paid and have a great lifestyle. If they both moved to London and got jobs there, yes they'd be paid more but there is no way they would have the houses and lifestyle they do if they were living there.
I work for a Bank and am quite friendly with a colleague who works in our legal team. She fully works from home and works 35 hours a week which is classed as full time.
Also your pension pot at 37 is great. Like you say if you didn't pay any more into it, you'd still be fine.
At 37 the thought of being mortgage free and able to step down to a less stressful job or reduce hours is so appealing

It’s 25 mins door to door - a direct tube every 2-3 mins. Office is 2 mins from station and my house is an 8 min walk the other end. It makes a massive difference to my ability to be home for bedtime as I can do a 5pm call and still be back at a reasonable time. I think even an extra 20-30mins would make life so much more difficult as would impact on my visibility at work.

A short, predictable commute is one of the biggest positive contributors to my work-life balance. I would be very loath to make my commute worse!

I work with a few people who moved further away from work post pandemic. A long commute, even if only a couple of days a week, is a right PITA.

These are good points. Especially the ageism. It is VERY rampant. And there are some amazing up-and-coming young people competing for every job. I'm well-paid & experienced, would love to change roles, but there is no way I would prevail. I cling to what I have.

Not necessarily the most inspiring point of view, I realize, and some people have more gumption. But worth considering.

Unfortunately, and particularly since Covid and wfh, house prices have shot up in most areas of the country. Where you could sell up in London and get something far bigger 1 - 1.5 hours away just doesn't happen as much. Cost of living means even outside London most people need two incomes.

Doesn't mean you shouldn't change some elements of life, but just be a realistic.

Have you thought about moving to a regional office? Often tend to have a better work/life balance.

How about judiciary? District Judge or Tribunal Judge? Can be part-time if you want (and go full-time later and look to become a Circuit Judge)?

Regarding ageism: I think in my early forties I could still come across as young/adaptable. These days, even though it’s only 5+ years later, I have a lot more experience but I’m often the same age as my interviewer. Perhaps they think I will be snapping at their heels or wanting their job? Honestly I would just be grateful to be working but perhaps perceptions are against me.

The other thing to do is ask your colleagues to tell you more about where they live. Just start conversations about it: houses, schools, amenities and travel. They must all live somewhere that’s reachable for your place of work.

What does your DH think as you never mentioned him in your OP. Could he get a job elsewhere/work remotely? Would he also want to reduce hours? Bear in mind £500k won't get you that far in the south east of England if you want to stay in that area. Where are your family and friends? We moved out of London last year to an expensive south east town, and apart from housing costs (ours went up as we got a bigger place), everything else costs the same, in fact our council tax is way more. Don't assume everything is cheaper outside London. Id be cautious about throwing in your career totally, unfortunately a lot of marriages don't last, and you would also have a lot of working years the other side of young kids.

@Peonies12 DH is really happy in his job and wouldn’t want to leave it, but would be able to and happy to commute as he can do a fair bit remotely.

We have friends and family up north, so that’s where I would want to go, though DH works near Victoria so another option might be to go south but commutable for both of us.

@BadSkiingMum the more senior people at work earn mega bucks and have stay at home wives, live in nice London places like Hampstead and Chiswick or Surrey and don’t see their kids. My exact peers are either in a 2x high earning couple or have family wealth+stay at home wife, so have much more £ than me and live in places like Stokey/Dulwich/Greenwich (and still don’t see their kids).

Our families are working class so no financial support and DH loves his job so we still need to pay for childcare - feels like an uphill battle even though on paper we are very successful (and yes I know still very fortunate compared to most).

But what about out towards Surrey or Kent?

You say you have £500k equity? I just fired up Rightmove and the very first hit in Bexley is a nice 4 bed detached, close to station for £850k. Big garden, conservatory, garage and close to a grammar school. Ridgecroft Close if you want to look. Cannon Street to Bexley is 35 mins approx.

As a solicitor, are you in a very London-centric specialism? Country and town solicitors exist everywhere, and if you have exceptional experience (which with your pay it sounds like it might?) you might be in a great position to move to a local firm and potentially even pitch for a fast partner track agreement?

Particularly if you had moved to one of the northern cities they are likely to have large enough firms to deal with even fairly specialised levels of solicitor I would assume. That's certainly the case in accountancy (my profession) anyway.

I'd be looking at what you spend currently, what you'd need to live comfortably/enjoy yourselves and what the cost/downsides for your DH would be.

I left a job with the Big 4. I'm never going to earn £1M a year like I might have if I stayed but I earn in the top 5% of the region I live in and have enough for a comfortable life and a job I value and that values me.

Thanks @BadSkiingMum. I don’t think that kind of a move stacks up really - that house is only slightly bigger and slightly cheaper than my current house, so I’d be making a big sacrifice (longer commute - c.50-55 mins door to door) for not really any gain.

It would need to be a big house improvement to make the commute and upheaval worth it and I don’t think that’s possible on my budget.

Well OP you're currently in a 'small and narrow' terrace. The house PP posted is detached, for one so already the best possible improvement from a terrace
But it also has a large garden, conservatory and the rooms appear reasonably sized.

What do you consider a 'big' house improvement?

Ive actually just checked and that house is smaller than mine (excluding the garage, which I don’t have but don’t particularly want) - mine is 150m2 and that one is 139m2. The layout is nicer as mine is long and thin, but it has the same No of bedrooms.

Garden is bigger and it is detached, yes, but in answer to your question I would consider a big house improvement to be a house with more internal living space than my own and ideally specifically a bigger kitchen.

Something like this in terms of size?
https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/143079545#/?channel=RES_BUY

Again, I’d probably say that is a minor improvement - it’s a tiny bit bigger than my house - not as much as it appears as they have counted the garage in the internal floor space, which I wouldn’t do, and the first floor size and bedroom nos are the same as my house.

It also costs only a little less than my house, so I’d still need a whopping mortgage (C.£400k) and I’d have a much longer commute. It just doesn’t make sense or solve any of my problems.

Well what about this one - a period property so a bit more of a substantial feel:

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/147049781

But I get the sense that what you’re wanting is more within the work/family dynamic?

Would you still want/need a significantly larger house if you moved somewhere where you could get rid of the mortgage entirely?

I do think 150m2 is pretty massive for a terrace. I live in a 2 bed terrace and the entire floor area is about 60m2. Obviously that's a small house, but 2.5x the size isn't a small house so that might explain why you aren't seeing the space increases you're hoping for.

Obviously a city a long way from London was what you were thinking and is probably a better option for you in terms of facilitating a specialism. But e.g. Ipswich is an hour ten from London (depending where your husband's work is) and you can get 4 bed detached house for £350 to £450k.

https://www.zoopla.co.uk/for-sale/details/66295390/?search_identifier=43c90c3395f28c0a5dab9a3f8bc05c774d431f222db28188c167ae9663766a24

https://www.zoopla.co.uk/for-sale/details/66379348/?search_identifier=f7098ad4eeb66808565d75a371d61c12134ccd35f0dad0370b27adb739ff23e4

But even a 4 bed detached isn't, on average, much bigger than your terraced house if it manages to be 150m squared. That would have to be 15ft wide (4.5m) by nearly 60ft (13.7m) long. Plus another 2 stories both 15ft by 24ft. There aren't many terraces that big round here. So it will limit the benefit you get in terms of moving to a detached house unless you buy a truly enormous one, which will be expensive everywhere.

I've just escaped the rat race, after years of juggling small children, long hours and high stress and demands. I realised how much it was impacting my mental health and how I felt I was never present fully with my children, always had one eye on my email or thinking about work.

I spent a great deal of time reviewing my priorities, negotiated an exit package and have decided to go self employed in a different field. I left London many years ago but absolutely love where I live now, I've got so much on my doorstep and live in a real community.

The fact you are considering a change is probably a sign your priorities have changed. Take some time to review what's important and think it all through so it feels like a proactive change for the better rather than reactive knee jerk reaction.