Financial gift - asked to return it following recipient's death

[GiftQuery]

Not sure where to post and please be kind as it involves my mum's estate.

We recently lost our mum and she had had a companion of many years, they had been partners however never lived together or had had any financial involvement. Her partner is a multimillionaire if this is relevant.

My mum's partner had been seriously ill and she had literally saved his life twice within a year. Obviously he was eternally grateful for this and as a result decided he would pay off the remaining £10,000 capital of her interest only mortgage.

He has contacted the executor of the will to say he would like this money returning to him as well as a lesser amount of £500 for an item he claims he purchased for her property.

I am inclined to say, just give him it, and cut ties with him - he is not a pleasant man. He has been leaning on us constantly for various things very few of them involving missing mum, since our mum's death, causing us much stress and upset. They lived several hundred miles away from us and we have very little relationship with him (his choice).

My sibling, however, would like to ask him for evidence that this was ever a loan and as he will not be able to provide this as it was not a loan, then we say bad luck you're not having it.

I am very non-confrontational, however I can see his point .

I just wondered if anyone knew where we stood legally with this.

Thank you for any advice - as you can probably imagine it's a very emotional time and my main feeling at the moment is incredulity that he is even mentioning this merely weeks after we lost our beloved mum.

I should think if these amounts were gifts he has no right to reclaim them. If your mother’s estate is not being dealt with by a solicitor I’d be inclined to pay for a short consultation with a solicitor to be sure of your rights. I agree with others that you will need to see signed and witnessed paperwork to determine whether this man is a greedy opportunist. Do not be bullied by him.

To claim a beneficial interest you must have derived the benefit of the property (ie lived in it), if you simply contributed financially to a property, but never lived there you could be a legal owner, but not beneficial one.

I'm sorry for your loss.

It sounds like your mum's estate was worth at least 300k (the savings plus the house). Personally, and if the other beneficiaries will agree I would add it to the debts of the estate and pay the chap back. For £10,500 in the context of the estate it's not worth the aggro. He wants his money back why not just let him have it?

If you had paid off 10k of your mums estate recently and then she passed away would you think that you should be paid back before the estate was split with your siblings?

Also if you think he is going into your mum's house then I would get the locks changed.

Let the lawyer deal with it. Don't have anything to do with him and deflect to the professionals. He's nothing to you.
"From now on please deal with my lawyer". Something along that line.

I’d just tell him to take the heater if he wants it so much. I wouldn’t give him a single penny. As previous posters have said, ask him for the paperwork to prove he made this loan.

You can’t take back gifts! At least you shouldn’t. Ignore him.

I imagine her partner didn't know this either and feels a bit cheated.

What are your reasons for keeping it though? You've acknowledged that he either gave or lent your Mum the money so why do you think you and your brother should benefit from his money. It seems very disingenuous to be agnsting about this when all you have to do is give the money back to him.
He sounds awful but I don't see why that's relevant.

🙄

Because if it wasn't a loan, then it's a gift. Would you return all gifts that were given to the deceased? Birthday gifts, Christmas gifts, gifts that were given 'just because'?🤔

I can sort of see it, but probably incorrectly.

He seems to be a man guided by placing a financial value on everything.

Your mum saved his life twice. He decided that was worth paying her £10K to pay off her mortgage.

But she died.

Old person has self-declared, "No, that gift was intended for her, not her children, who mean nothing to me."

He does not think of you as extensions of her, who she would most want to benefit following her death.

Other than that, he's probably stomping around in grief, looking for someone or something to be angry at.

I'd send him a grown up letter, via a solicitor, asking him to explain why his financial gifts should not be part of her estate. And I'd probably include in that letter the fact that her children are very grateful she was able to save or assist in saving his life twice.

Give him the heater back, not the money for it. The other money was definitely a gift. Say, 'My Mum was so delighted you recognised that she saved your life and was so appreciative of your generous gift, I'm sure in retrospect you remember this.'

I had this when my mum died, her partner took me to court for money he spent on her house, knowing he wouldn’t inherit it!!! The judge almost laughed in his face and I barely had to say a word. So unless he has a signed legal agreement that the money was a loan just ignore him. So sorry for your loss 😢

Surely the problem with just giving it back is that then next week he will be claiming something else , a bit like a blackmailer, once you start paying up it may never end .
Sorry for your loss @GiftQuery 💐

@2024please

The money was a recent gift or loan. I'd definitely return it even if the guy is not nice. If I was the OP I would want to profit from that man's money. I'd also not want to deal with the unpleasantness.

I don't think all gifts should be returned but in this case I do.

Not sure why you used the eye roll emoji just because I have a different opinion to you. It comes across as sarcastic

It’s almost like these people turn their grief at the loss of their partner into resentment for the partner’s living children as well as entitlement to items/money/property from the estate. He sounds like bitter old Scrooge.

For those querying why I'm not simply returning it, for one I can't, I am not the executor and even if I were, I can't be giving money away willy nilly. If there was a loan agreement, which I'm almost certain there was not, he's on entitled by law and I would graciously concede.

In my OP I stated I was inclined to give the money back however my sibling, who is the other beneficiary stated no, we go by the letter of the law.

Which is what we will do. He is not acting in grief, he is exceptionally mean financially which is why this was such a surprise gift to our mother - who had the means to repay this amount from her mortgage should the need have arisen, but chose to keep her money invested. I do imagine there was some thoughts of "I've earned this" for spending decades supporting him, and suffering stress and upset at his hands as he is a very difficult man.

That's irrelevant- the law states he can't have the money unless it was a loan or we agree our goodwill once probate is completed.

As for the heater yes, he can have the physical heater back, not the money although the executor is going to ask for the evidence of payment and non-repayment by mum, of this too.

Thanks for the sympathy for the loss of our amazing mum. It's still only a few weeks passed, it's all very raw, he didn't need to do this now.

THIS! He has to prove it was a loan in writing to have ANY validity. This would include the repayment terms. Without this evidence he's climbing a greasy pole. I would ignore it. The onus is on him to prove it was a loan, not for you to prove it was a gift. Remember that.

For those querying why I'm not simply returning it, for one I can't, I am not the executor and even if I were, I can't be giving money away willy nilly

You can easily return your part of it though. Your brother can do what he likes with his share. You said earlier that you didn't want any of his money but you are happy to benefit from his gift to your Mum.

People are calling the guy scrooge but he is the one loosing out.

Legally the OP can keep the money but I know I wouldn't.

He is not acting in grief, he is exceptionally mean financially which is why this was such a surprise gift to our mother - who had the means to repay this amount from her mortgage should the need have arisen, but chose to keep her money invested

TBF That doesn't sound like someone who is mean financially. It's sounds generous 🤷🏻‍♀️

Firstly, I am so sorry for your loss.

Secondly, it is a harsh life lesson when a parent dies, as to how some people who were around them have such a terrible lack of emotional intelligence!
(I understand this as I lost my Mum last year under awful circumstances and her partner's lack of understanding about how I felt following on from that was so shocking to me)

This man may be a multi millionaire but he sounds ruthless and very unkind and is treating the way in which he helped your mum as a business transaction, which it was so obviously not!
(Perhaps you should send an invoice for the two times she saved his life - both of which seems pretty priceless to me)

Please do not let him bully you into handing over a single penny, unless as others have said, he can prove it was always intended as a loan.

Try to look after yourself as you grieve and take time to heal..

What makes you think he'll just go away? If they hand over £10k without any proof of loan, he'll be back for more 'loan repayments' without proof.

Anyway it's illegal for executors to hand out money from an estate to whoever just asks for it.

According to OP, he’d just had a near-death experience, and quickly asked for it back.

Be aware that if you or your siblings give the money out of goodwill, as the figure is above the annual gift allowance it would count as a gift from you, and be counted from your estate for IHT if the worst happened and you didn't make it 7 years.

You are right to follow the course you are following!

You can, but, once the estate is settled the OPs share is hers, not the estates, if she gives the guy £5K say, that's a gift - which will be knocked of the OPs Nil Rate Band if she dies within 7 years (hopefully she won't!) - you really have to think ahead, giving away chunks of cash can cause headaches for others down the line, meaning potentially the ripples of this chancer could be felt years away.

The law is simple, if it was a loan it gets paid out of the estate, if it was a gift, that's it, gone, sorry!

I can just hear what Judge Rinder would say to this guy