Financial gift - asked to return it following recipient's death

[GiftQuery]

Not sure where to post and please be kind as it involves my mum's estate.

We recently lost our mum and she had had a companion of many years, they had been partners however never lived together or had had any financial involvement. Her partner is a multimillionaire if this is relevant.

My mum's partner had been seriously ill and she had literally saved his life twice within a year. Obviously he was eternally grateful for this and as a result decided he would pay off the remaining £10,000 capital of her interest only mortgage.

He has contacted the executor of the will to say he would like this money returning to him as well as a lesser amount of £500 for an item he claims he purchased for her property.

I am inclined to say, just give him it, and cut ties with him - he is not a pleasant man. He has been leaning on us constantly for various things very few of them involving missing mum, since our mum's death, causing us much stress and upset. They lived several hundred miles away from us and we have very little relationship with him (his choice).

My sibling, however, would like to ask him for evidence that this was ever a loan and as he will not be able to provide this as it was not a loan, then we say bad luck you're not having it.

I am very non-confrontational, however I can see his point .

I just wondered if anyone knew where we stood legally with this.

Thank you for any advice - as you can probably imagine it's a very emotional time and my main feeling at the moment is incredulity that he is even mentioning this merely weeks after we lost our beloved mum.

If your mum had any expectation that he would want it back, wouldn’t she have left him something in the will? Did she leave him anything in the will anyway? If not then that’s also telling you something about her wishes. I think it’s a way to try and keep you involved with him when it sounds like you’re not going to want any further contact .

I'm really sorry you lost your mum.

I agree that you should say your solicitor asks for evidence it was a loan. If they were loans then surely there would be repayments from her too? Do you have access to her bank accounts to see whether she repaid him anything?

Sorry for one blanket response but I'm really struggling with this all and please please don't believe we are in any way grabby- my initially reaction was to say let him have it.

Legally I doubt he can't have it and I certainly would not return any gift to him from my share of inheritance. My brother has already decided to go NC as he is so disgusted.

There would be opportunities to suck up to him to hope for some of his fortune if we were grabby- I would not want a single penny from that man.

Thank you all for your views and advice. I've told the executor how we would like to respond and tbh as you all say if there is no loan. I'm 99.9% sure there isn't, he can't have it. If there is then he can have it with pleasure. I'm not here to be awkward.

Agree with this. If he's got money for an expensive legal battle, this could get messy. There's something called the presumption of advancement. Loosely speaking, if they were married it would be presumed a gift, if they weren't it's presumed a loan in the absence of other evidence.

Originally the presumption only applied to transfers from men to women (e.g. husband giving his wife money deemed a gift, wife giving husband money deemed a loan...) and its considered archaic and contravenes the Equality Act for this reason. It's actually in line to be abolished completely but that hasn't actually happened yet.

However it might work in your favour because the money was given to pay off an outstanding debt, rather than a straight cash transfer in a gift/loan scenario. You need to seek legal advice and mention the presumption of advancement and see what they say. An hour with a solicitor would be immensely valuable.

I wouldn't be paying him anything until there is proof of a loan.

A not dissimilar situation here; StepF refusing to hand over deceased Mother's jewellery to her beneficiaries. He says it's his because he bought a lot of it for her! 🙄

We have this too. He removed a necklace he had bought mum before she had died and has been in her house since and things are missing. It's illegal, we can't even donate things to charity until probate is done.

In addition we are about to instruct a solicitor as all values are about compete - no qualms about this as we want it all done properly.

I'm just drained - from the illness and death, both traumatic, his looking for someone to blame for both of these and this. The things he has taken or wanted are ridiculous mostly but jewellery included. I feel like warning him the police will be involved in a way!!

Thank you again!

Interesting. In Scotland the law is that something is assumed to be a loan unless it can be proved to be a gift. It's called the presumption against gifting.

I would not want a single penny from that man.

But if you keep the money then that's exactly what you would be doing. He can't take anything that isn't his but I don't think it's unusual to take back gifts that you have given a loved one.

@HayFeverFun if he has gifted it, it isn't his and he cannot take it back

That is theft.

Agree with this. We’re going through a situation here where the person will have to demonstrate the ££££s were a gift and not a loan - which they’re unable to do and which they’d been warned about repeatedly over the years.

No he can't claim a share of the house, as he had no beneficial interest in it, he didn't live there - had he lived there and paid towards the mortgage that would be different.

So he is neither the legal, nor beneficial owner - without proof of a loan it is a gift and that's it.

As PP has said, legally the executor cannot vary from the will, the will, as with all wills will say "after payment of debts", if a debt can be proved then the executor will have to pay him, however if no proof exists, legally the executor must distribute the estate according to the will.

Sorry you are going through this OP

i would instruct the executor to contact the police re trespass and missing items. I bet he fucks off after they turn up.
Also insist upon getting his fucking key back.

The executor can dispose of the contents of the house before probate is completed, ie rubbish, charity donations etc. They only have to retain items that have been specifically gifted in the will or are of high enough value to be potentially included in IHT calculations independently, ie a ming vase.

The rest can be disposed of, but the executor has to keep any monies attained on account for distribution.

The house itself of course cannot be sold until probate is granted, but long before then the homes of most deceased estates are empty, and in some cases refurbished, an executor can decide with agreement of the beneficiaries to do up the property if that will mean it getting a much higher sale value, although the beneficiaries have to fund that work speculatively.

The police will not be interested in trespass, its not a crime, its a civil matter - any you would have to prove the items that were missing were missing in the first place.

The way to deal with this chancer is very much through the letter of the law, can he prove a loan was made and a debt due, if not no dice.

With the heater I would say, you can have it if you have a receipt to prove it is yours, but you need to arrange its removal by an NICEIC approved electrician (the executor has a duty to keep the home in good, insured condition) and get it off the premises. A sparky will charge £100 to do that, so he's not going to take it, he's the proverbial wanker!!

@PropertyManager don't even go there. HE FITTED IT! We need to decide what to do as we need it safety checked and potentially refitted by an electrician.

Can you change the locks OP or at least add another lock on the door to secure the property? The risk is if he has a key it's not trespass and he may go in and remove this heater thing himself and make a mess.

You have my sympathy, my dad died in Feb, I'm sole beneficiary and executor, so it should be simple and I suppose is.

But when you have just lost a loved one and are grieving suddenly you have all this nonsense, registration, funeral, IHT forms, probate etc etc to deal with in a hurry on top of getting on with your own life.

Nightmare!!

I would certainly change the locks if he has a key

I’m sorry but unless he can prove it was a loan then screw that. Sounds like a grade A arsehole.

NRTFT umm I am not a legal eagle but have personally dealt with a very similar situation and I would say to you tread carefully. If he takes it to court out of sheer nastiness (and it sounds as though maybe he could because loaded and would because nasty) then your mum's estate, and possibly the executor (s) might end up liable not just for the money but also for his court costs. I suggest that your first step would be to get some proper legal advice. Going off at half cock because you are understandably hurt and angry might land you in a world of trouble.

So sorry for your loss 💔we were in a similar situation 30 years ago when my Dad passed away suddenly. He had left Mum 10 years previously (but they did not divorce) and moved in with a very wealthy widow and restored her huge house over the years (we called her Lilo Lil...she's a tart, Bread fame). She made a claim on Dad's estate, it ended up going to court. It made Mum quite ill and in the end we just paid her off to make her go away. If you are strong and resilient enough emotionally, ignore him...if it would have an adverse effect on any family member, pay him off...there are some absolutely detestable people around. May karma prevail. Good luck!

Any claim for money should be placed with the executor including proof of said debt. Do not let your aversion to conflict harm you.

Thank you all again. We are most definitely taking legal advice this week. The executor is going to organise this.

Another vote for telling him to F-off.

Do you know if he paid it directly to the mortgage lender or if he gave the money to your mum? This might be relevant if he tries to claim a beneficial interest in the house at a later date? If he is claiming that this was instead a loan he needs to have written evidence that this was the acknowledged intent rather than it being a gift, as others have said ask him please to provide a copy of any loan agreement drawn up between them or other evidence that it was not a gift