All these people taking weight loss appetite suppressant drugs?!!

[OnHerSolidFoundations]

Is it me or is this a bit sinister?

It’s also established that people in the ‘overweight’ BMI category have less mortality risk than those in the normal category.

It’s also not clear whether the risk is as a direct result of the obesity itself or if it because of something else - like delayed treatment as one example.

That's not how semaglutide works at all. It stops cravings so that you don't want to overeat in the first place and is successful in treating binge eating disorder for that reason.

You might be thinking of orlistat.

But that’s still what an obesity related illness is. If you are obese and get type 2 diabetes the dr will say it’s an obesity related illness. And I’m pretty sure obesity does directly cause type 2 diabetes. Yes the other illnesses will raise your risk and if you get a certain type of cancer you will never know for sure if your weight caused the cancer but there’s a chance it could have done. So obesity can cause other illnesses, but of course nobody is saying if your bmi is 32 you’re going to get x. And yes, there’s a small chance you could have got x even if your bmi had been lower.

In a similar vein, I recommend Secrets From The Eating Lab.

I’d be really interested in a link for that, genuinely.

That’s exactly it though, no one can say your obesity caused your illness. Type 2 diabetes is a complicated thing. This is an excerpt from Dr Joshua Wolrich’s book.

The second picture is also interesting.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35368193/#:~:text=Data%20from%20this%20study%20suggest,for%20female%20and%20male%2C%20respectively.

Higher BMI may be healthier as we age

But for an individual it could be that obesity caused the illness. I mean there’s not a lot of slim people getting type 2 diabetes. So for a lot of people it will be the obesity which causes the problem.

Why does obesity cause diabetes?

Samuel Klein 1, Amalia Gastaldelli 2, Hannele Yki-Järvinen 3, Philipp E Scherer 4
Affiliations expand
PMID: 34986330 PMCID: PMC8740746 DOI: 10.1016/j.cmet.2021.12.012
Abstract

The accumulation of an excessive amount of body fat can cause type 2 diabetes, and the risk of type 2 diabetes increases linearly with an increase in body mass index. Accordingly, the worldwide increase in the prevalence of obesity has led to a concomitant increase in the prevalence of type 2 diabetes. The cellular and physiological mechanisms responsible for the link between obesity and type 2 diabetes are complex and involve adiposity-induced alterations in β cell function, adipose tissue biology, and multi-organ insulin resistance, which are often ameliorated and can even be normalized with adequate weight loss.

Relationships between Obesity and Cardiovascular Diseases in Four Southern States and ColoradoLuma Akil, PhD-C, Candidate and H. Anwar Ahmad, PhD, MBA, MCIS, Faculty
Author information Copyright and License information PMC Disclaimer

The publisher's final edited version of this article is available at J Health Care Poor UnderservedGo to:
Abstract

Obesity is among the leading causes of elevated cardiovascular disease (CVD) mortality and morbidity. In the present study, the associations between the increase in body mass index (BMI) and the increase rates of CVD and high blood pressure (HBP) in the states of Mississippi, Alabama, Louisiana, Tennessee, and Colorado are examined using regression analysis and by means of neural network models for obesity and HBP

It’s really not that simpe. Thin/slim people DO get T2. And let’s just say weight loss in and of itself could reverse it, there is still no guaranteed long term method of weight loss that will work for the majority of the population.

There is also no consideration or control in a lot of the research out there on the impact of yoyo dieting, weight stigma etc.

So, an acquaintance of mine is thin. He has T2, developed it in his 30’s. His cannot be blamed on his size. But then it’s suggested that someone who was overweight when they developed it should have it blamed on their size. It just doesn’t make sense!

Or what I should say is, it’s far more complicated than the reductionists on here and society in general would have us believe.

But people with t2 or pre diabetes often do reverse it with weight loss.

But is it the weight loss in and of itself that reverses it? Or is it the ‘healthier eating’, the metformin, the exercise etc?

Otherwise surely we could all potentially have liposuction on the NHS and it would be resolved.

Possibly.

But all I know is it’s a medical fact, backed up by millions of bits of research and medics that obesity raises your risk of various things and therefore for some people will have been the cause of their illness. Yes I get if someone has a pulmonary embolism and is obese and has had a long haul flight you can’t say for sure what caused it, chances are it’s a combination. Without the long haul flight they may have been ok, with a lower bmi they may have been ok. And yes, slim people get PEs as well.

But I don’t see the harm in people with a raised bmi wanting to use a tool to help them lower their risk. 🤷‍♀️. And ultimately that’s what this thread is about

But I don’t see the harm in people with a raised bmi wanting to use a tool to help them lower their risk. 🤷‍♀️. And ultimately that’s what this thread is about

But that’s also why it’s not straightfoward. Like I keep saying - long term weight loss is not sustainable and yoyo dieting is problematic/harmful. Not to mention the side effects that these drugs and interventions come with. And that their long term effects are not available to see yet.

Im not on the drug?

The point I am making is that the guidelines about how long a person is on, is naturally going to be different because of thresholds of funding, so a decision has been made about someone with diabetes because its a life threatening condition, at this time

Obesity is life threatening but not at this time, it might be at some point in the future, the cost/risk/benefit therefore is to have an end date for people being prescribed it by the NHS (of which I know no one who has had it on the NHS although Im sure there are some)

These decisions are financial, not medical, otherwise it would be wrong for someone to take it more than 2 years no matter what the reason was

He might be on it for life, he might not, he is still on his metformin and the combination might continue to work for him or might not.

@BeretRaspberry I think the study you refer to is misleading and not particularly 'tight' in controlling variables or assigning participants into categories.

Other more well controlled studies have found that there is in fact an increased risk of mortality in those overweight/obese.

See here: https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/2013/01/09/ask-the-expert-does-being-overweight-really-decrease-mortality-no/

I dont know the exact detials but there have been studies showing that for the very elderly, being just over the maximum healthy BMI range can be a protective factor, but for the majority of us, no, its not healthier to be 'overweight'

soupfiend · Today 20:09
I dont know the exact detials but there have been studies showing that for the very elderly, being just over the maximum healthy BMI range can be a protective factor, but for the majority of us, no, its not healthier to be 'overweight'”

Interesting. I’ve seen a couple of documentaries by credible filmmakers suggesting the opposite, that as we age being in a slight calorie deficit seems to be beneficial to health.

Oh!

Well this isnt the news I want to hear!!!

You weren't correcting incorrect information, you were trying to correct an opinons.

Move on.

Heres one

But firstly they make the point that the findings were unexpected and that more research is therefore needed, not that conclusive then

But secondly, and more importantly I think, this sample was people in Sardinia, a much much healthier population than here all round, Im not sure being overweight in that context is quite the same as the average overweight Brit.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6801595/#:~:text=These%20results%20suggest%20that%20being,better%20understand%20this%20unexpected%20finding.

Nope, it was incorrect information.

I'm T2 diabetic, diagnosed at 40 just like my Dad before me and his Mum before him. Seems to strike the firstborn in the family on my Dad's side. I've lost 4 stone but it's made little difference to my blood sugars and Metformin is a horrific life companion - gastritis is a regular occurence, horrific gallbladder pain, and crippling stomach pains. I walk 10k steps a day at least with my 2 spaniels, eat a low carb diet and yet I'm still diabetic. And it really pisses me off that people are so dismissive saying it's a lifestyle induced chronic illness. I physically couldn't do more to make myself healthier. I've got terrible eyesight problems (just like my Dad did), chronically high blood pressure and suffer with neuropathy.

If I read one more post saying diabetes is reversible........I may crack.

"People are more willing to put chemicals they don't need or understand into their body than make some basic healthy lifestyle choices."

"People would rather take a drug than eat healthily and exercise."

These are the two ways I have tried to express my opinion to you.
Which one - bearing in mind we are talking about my opinion - is incorrect information?